Mormon Heretic

Don’t forget Balaam since he always seems to come up in our discussions.

Edit on 10/4/2009 by MH: Here is the new post on Balaam.

Finding truth without revelation.

If Socrates were placed in the middle of Times square – He would never be able to find the whole truth unless he had assistance from the present day time frame.

Was Jesus a heretical Jew trying to make change within his own religion or was he the literal son of God, come to initiate Christianity? Or, did he even exist.

What is the purpose of the saving ordinances?

Who is the Great and Abominable Church?

The great flood…global, localized or myth.

Who really ran the church after Jesus; Peter, Paul, or Mary?
Just threw Mary in to round out the discussion.

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Used for the sole purpose of dominating the recent comments section with my mug.

@Bishop Rick
I thought you were too young to appreciate that folk group.

I would actrually like to understand more about how the LDS view ordinances. I’d thought about putting something on the to-do-list for my own blog posts, since the CofChrist view is so different, but realized I know way too little about LDS views on the subject, and don’t expect I’m ever going to get a temple recommend.

FT: One’s parents have a larger influence on musical taste than one might expect.

Can’t wait for the discussion on Adam and Eve.
I always found Frasier’s wife strangely attractive.

I don’t know how to label this. Is it possible to come up with a proclamation, in tribute, to the “One God” worshiped by those of Islam, Judiasm, and Christianity – that describes attributes that all 3 agree on?

Example: All 3 agree that Adam, Abraham, and Moses were real and spoke with God.
In deference to Christianity, both Islam and Christianity believe that Jesus was a great man. One proclaims Jesus to be a prophet and other, a member of the “Godhead”. The Jews recognize Jesus as a great Rabbi. There must be some words, spoken by Jesus, that all 3 agree on.

The proclamation would acknowledge that there are differences between the 3 that only God can resolve. But the proclamation would be a tribute to the “One God”, containing all information known, that all 3 of these religions agree with.

@Bishop Rick
I want to respond to your questions, “Was Jesus a heretical Jew trying to make change within his own religion or was he the literal son of God, come to initiate Christianity? Or, did he even exist.” I’ll address them one at a time.

Jesus was a Jew, but not heretical, and not trying to make change within his own religion. He was and is the literal Son of God. He did not, however, during his mortal time on earth, initiate Christianity. When Adam and Eve were in the garden called Eden they were taught by their (and our) Heavenly Father. When they were cast out of the Garden of Eden, there were shut out from the presence of God the Father, but were taught by the other two Beings Who comprise the Godhead, namely; Jehovah (later known as Jesus Christ from His birth onward), and the Holy Ghost (sometimes referred to as the Holy Spirit, but in some instances the term “Holy Spirit” refers to our Heavenly Father’s Spirit or His beloved Son, Jesus Christ’s Spirit). As to the existence of Jehovah/Jesus Christ/Son of God/Redeemer/Master (or one of about 100 other names or titles), He did and does exist. It is well known among all Jewish sects that such a Person lived in what is referred to as the “meridian of time” (some 2,000 years ago), but almost all Jews acknoledge Him not as the Son of God and our Savior (they won’t recognize Him as the Redeemer until He puts His foot down upon Mount Olivet and the Mount split, wherein will be a valley they will flee into in order to escape the enemy armies of 2 million), but as a Rabbi, a great teacher, ans some go so far as to say He was even a prophet. I hope this helps. If you have further questions just email them to carrinsr@gmail.com with the subject always as “I have questions about your beliefs”. If the subject is not preficed in this manner, I will probably delete the email as spam, and never open it. Thanks for your questions.

@Bishop Rick
The purpose of saving ordinances is self explanatory; ordinances which have to do with sone’s salvation. I prefer the word “exaltation” as opposed to “salvation”. There are two types of salvation. One is physical, the other; spiritual. Concerning ordinances, as the word is plural, so are the performances. In other words, there is more than one. The first ordinance for spiritual salvation is baptism. After baptism the next ordinance is the laying on of hands for receiving the Holy Ghost and being confirmed a member of the Savior’s Church. The most often performed individual ordinance after baptism and confirmation is the partaking of the sacrament, that is, bread in remembrance of His body bruised, and then water in rembrance of His life-blood shed. However, there are several other ordinances within the Savior’s Church, all pertaining to spiritual growth leading to the perfecting of those called to be saints. I hope this answeres your question.

@Bishop Rick
Specifically, the “Great and Abominable Church” is the “Holy Roman Catholic Church” which, after a period of about 200 years after the ascension of the Savior after His resurrection, supplanted those who held proper priesthood authority to preach the Savior’s gospel in its purity, to baptise, to confirm, and to do all things whatsoever within the Savior’s Church as He had directed. the process of removing the Savior’s Church and replacing it with the Great and Abominable Church was accomplished by Satan influencing evil designing and wicked men to destory the Savior’s authorized leaders, and replacing them with his own organization, which organization I have clearly identified herein. I hope this answers your question.

@Bishop Rick
The great flood was global. The earth was completely immersed under water. The earth was actually baptized by immersion. Just prior to the great flood those who were righteoes were lifted up into heaven along with their spiritual leader, Enoch. The city of Enoch was lifted up into heaven, as mentioned in the Old Testament. The city was very large, comprising roughly the same area as what we know today as the Gulf of Mexico. That entire city, along with its inhabitants, will be returned to earth at the beginning of the millenium. After the righteoes were removed from the earth, then the floods came and destroyed the wick. Only Noah, his wife, and their three sons, Shem, Ham and Japeth, and their wives, were saved in the ark, along with other species of life. I hope this answers your question.

Bishop Rick :Who really ran the church after Jesus; Peter, Paul, or Mary?Just threw Mary in to round out the discussion.

The Savior continued to run His Church through three of His apostles, Peter being the Savior’s chosen prophet, with James and John His two counselors. One of the brothers of the Savior was placed in charge of seeing to the welfare of Mary. This was done while the Savior was on the cross. I hope this answers your question.

David:

Thank you. I have no further questions at this time.

This from Firetag: “I would actrually like to understand more about how the LDS view ordinances. I’d thought about putting something on the to-do-list for my own blog posts, since the CofChrist view is so different, but realized I know way too little about LDS views on the subject, and don’t expect I’m ever going to get a temple recommend.”
Since you typed you don’t expect you’re ever going to get a temple recommend, I suppose you are either LDS and not progressing spiritually in order to obtain one, or you are not LDS but have been taught something about LDS temple recommends. Not knowing which, I will take the more simple road and presume you are not LDS. So here is my answer:
LDS view ordinances as part of our Heavenly Father’s plan for our eternal happiness. But He also has commandments (sometimes referred to as laws) which we must also obey. Keeping His commandments and performing His ordinances, regardless of how many commandments and ordinances there may be, are absolutely essential in gaining His greatest blessings, referred to in the Holy Bible as “all that He hath”. Where much is given, much is required. However, He will not reveal all His laws and ordinances to us until such time we are spiritually prepared to receive and obey or perform them. Think of a six year old entering grade school. It would be much more harmful to put the average six year olds in the 8th grade. Why? They aren’t ready, and can’t be until they learn what is taught in 1-7 grades. Likewise we are not acquainted with additional laws and ordinances until we have learned and obeyed those we become acquainted with. As the scriptures say, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little, etc. This is why those who enter LDS temples hold temple recommends. The recommend is an indication of obedience to laws and ordinances previously entered into as a result of spiritual growth which prepared them for entrance into the Lord’s temple. So, just as we would not put normal 1st graders in the 8th grade, the Lord will not open His Holy temples to those who have not prepared themselves to understand temple ordinances. I hope this helps you understand, and if you are LDS, I encourage you to prepare yourself to enter the Lord’s House.