Ok Jettboy, where were your moderating views expressing “I would be perfectly fine if members with little to no faith increase that faith and if sinners were to seek repentance and forgiveness.”??????

Oh yeah, the next sentence says, “The problem is that IT ISN’T HAPPENING.

You’ve said ,

1. “There is no room, and I believe the scriptures support this, for “cultural members” in a divine institution.”

2. “They become traitors to the cause of faith and hinder the mission to perfect the Saints.”

3. “Paul constantly begs us to fight the good fight, win the race, get rid of evil in our lives, and be saved.”

4. “I thought I have made it clear for a very long time that I do wish for a Spanish inquisition LDS style.”

Where do any of these statements fit with the Prodigal Son, or the Good Samaritan? Where did you clarify (prior to comment 36) that you wanted to keep liberal members like me in? (I find it ironic that Bishop Rick and Andrew S view me as a “faithful” TBM, yet you seem ready to run me out on a rail.)

In Comment 30, You distorted or completely misrepresented many things I have said, and now I’m supposed to believe that you somehow can reconcile excommunicating the Prodigal Son, while welcoming him into the fold??? Isn’t the Prodigal Son deserving of your LDS-style Inquisition? Please explain to me where I missed all your moderating comments prior to 36. What specifically did you say to welcome people like me into the tent? I thought you said, “MH, lets have that fight on who is in charge, because I know that it wouldn’t go your way. The fact your blog is called “Mormon Heretic” seems to prove that point.”

Question for you: weren’t Jesus, Joseph Smith, Galileo, Martin Luther, Abraham, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lehi, Paul, Peter, and Moses also heretics?

On the other hand, MH has shown that he would like members with little to no faith to increase that faith to some level higher than it currently is.”

I love how everyone is expressing my extremes (and I admit to some hyperbole to an extent), but miss my other statements. I would be perfectly fine if members with little to no faith increase that faith and if sinners were to seek repentance and forgiveness. The problem is that IT ISN’T HAPPENING. When the Nephites continually sinned against G-d and his prophets, what did G-d do? Sent out a warning that if they don’t take the prophet’s words seriously and gain more faith in Jesus Christ that there would be bad consequences. You even read, heaven forbid, of people losing their membership (names blotted out) for unbelief and not repenting. Moroni warned against dismissing miracles, and other prophets along with him of rejecting the Book of Mormon. Eventually, if you do take the Book of Mormon seriously, civilizations fell into darkness and the Nephites were wiped out.

I’m just wondering if we as a people, both members and non-members, have become past feeling. How should I know? I’m just a heartless meanie who is too dumb to understand the Scriptures.

I recently watched “Life is Beautiful”. I am reminded of a scene where the Nazi’s are having dinner, and discussing how much society would benefit by killing all the invalids and mentally retarded people. From that point of view, they are a drain on society, just as liberal members are a drain on the church. Jettboy’s offer to excommunicate (essentially exterminate) liberal members does make sense from an institutional sense–it would definitely increase productivity within the church. However, it seems rather drastic, and un-Christian, IMO.

Christ said to let the wheat and the tares grow together. Plucking them out would kill the wheat. It is apparent to me that Jettboy doesn’t appreciate these parables of Jesus.

I do understand where you are coming from though because the scriptures can be confusing and contradicting when you only choose to adhere to scriptures that support your current agenda.

Example 1: (paraphrased) God would rather you be hot or cold because if you are lukewarm, he will spew you out.

That example could be used to support Jettboy’s inquisition.

Example 2: (paraphrased) Do not cast out or banish the prodigal son because there is always the chance that he will return home.

This example could be used to refute Jettboy’s inquisition.

On one hand Jettboy would like to throw out just about every LDS member that participates in this blog, because they don’t blindly accept all doctrine or practices as being from God.

On the other hand, MH has shown that he would like members with little to no faith to increase that faith to some level higher than it currently is.

Which scenario do you think Christ would sanction?

It is my opinion, that Christ would not sanction an inquisition, because this would only guarantee that fence sitters would leave and never return.

HOWEVER, I wonder if there is some merit in Jettboy’s idea of throwing people out of churches. I don’t like the tone in which he would like to do it nor the means, from what I can tell. But I also saw how quickly most of the commentors wanted to throw out his view. If you can agree that God created (or allowed for a means for) diversity (just look in the natural world), then maybe the different churches are all part of the plan…and maybe there is some value in helping people find where they fit. If the LDS is conservative, and the CofC is liberal, but both are interpretations of the Grove Experience of JS, why not do as jettboy says and swap members??

Something to think about…

By the way, the Mormon Inquisition would simply be intense interviews followed by possible excommunication with no actual torture. That would be illegal and without scriptural support as per rules of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Bishop Rick, thank you for calling me a racist and bigot. It is a badge of honor meaning there isn’t anything better you can say or argue. I am not afraid of scare tactics like that and feel vindicated when they are used.