Comments on: A South American Model for the Book of Mormon http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/ Stuff they don't talk about in Sunday School Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:23:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.3 By: fearaedo http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-13466 fearaedo Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:57:44 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-13466 <a href="#comment-2186" rel="nofollow">@Anthony E. Larson </a> Could you please lead me to the Priddi's where abouts. @Anthony E. Larson

Could you please lead me to the Priddi’s where abouts.

]]> By: Mormon Heretic » Book of Mormon on the Baja http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-5532 Mormon Heretic » Book of Mormon on the Baja Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:07:37 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-5532 [...] BOMC’s Great Lakes Theory, Ralph Olsen’s Malay Theory, and Venice Priddis’ South American Setting.  My purpose in reviewing theories is to provide constructive criticism.  Some people have very [...] [...] BOMC’s Great Lakes Theory, Ralph Olsen’s Malay Theory, and Venice Priddis’ South American Setting.  My purpose in reviewing theories is to provide constructive criticism.  Some people have very [...]

]]> By: Mormon Heretic » Foundations of Book of Mormon Archaeology http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-5049 Mormon Heretic » Foundations of Book of Mormon Archaeology Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:27:55 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-5049 [...] in Mesoamerica now.  Of course, I’ve talked previously about other theories, including South America, New York, and the Malay Theory, but Mesoamerica is by far the leading theory among Book of Mormon [...] [...] in Mesoamerica now.  Of course, I’ve talked previously about other theories, including South America, New York, and the Malay Theory, but Mesoamerica is by far the leading theory among Book of Mormon [...]

]]> By: A South American Setting for Book of Mormon at Mormon Matters http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2350 A South American Setting for Book of Mormon at Mormon Matters Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:34:23 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2350 [...] us over for family home evening, and introduced us to the idea that the Book of Mormon happened in South America.  I had never heard of this before, and became quite [...] [...] us over for family home evening, and introduced us to the idea that the Book of Mormon happened in South America.  I had never heard of this before, and became quite [...]

]]> By: Mormon Heretic http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2253 Mormon Heretic Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:41:00 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2253 Andrew, while I am sure there was some localized destruction, the BoM claims that many cities were rebuilt, so I think we should still be able to find some things. Even Jericho was wiped out, but archaeologist have discovered it, and claim that an earthquake did level the city walls. Candidates for Sodom and Gomorrah have been found, complete with ash from being burned. So, I think it is still possible to find archaeology, despite destruction. Andrew, while I am sure there was some localized destruction, the BoM claims that many cities were rebuilt, so I think we should still be able to find some things. Even Jericho was wiped out, but archaeologist have discovered it, and claim that an earthquake did level the city walls. Candidates for Sodom and Gomorrah have been found, complete with ash from being burned. So, I think it is still possible to find archaeology, despite destruction.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2246 Andrew Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:50:23 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2246 I tend to believe that the huge changes to the "face of the land" were large enough to effectively obscure any BC-era Nephite geography. Entire cities were sunk in the "sea", cities were buried under "mountains", smooth places became rough, etc. Whether or not this involved an event of sufficient size to shift a whole continental shelf is another matter, but nevertheless I don't think the land would now be recognizable to someone who lived there then. I'm even inclined to think that Nephi and family may have embarked from Asia. I don't think most of these things will be resolved until we get direct revelation on the subject. I tend to believe that the huge changes to the “face of the land” were large enough to effectively obscure any BC-era Nephite geography. Entire cities were sunk in the “sea”, cities were buried under “mountains”, smooth places became rough, etc. Whether or not this involved an event of sufficient size to shift a whole continental shelf is another matter, but nevertheless I don’t think the land would now be recognizable to someone who lived there then. I’m even inclined to think that Nephi and family may have embarked from Asia. I don’t think most of these things will be resolved until we get direct revelation on the subject.

]]> By: Mormon Heretic http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2228 Mormon Heretic Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:49:09 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2228 Firetag--interesting analysis. You obviously are much better well-versed on continental shelves than I have. As you know, I like to look at many theories, and I do not even rule out that we might be on the wrong continent. You'll have to check my Lemba post. Firetag–interesting analysis. You obviously are much better well-versed on continental shelves than I have. As you know, I like to look at many theories, and I do not even rule out that we might be on the wrong continent. You’ll have to check my Lemba post.

]]> By: FireTag http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2226 FireTag Sun, 31 May 2009 18:08:17 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2226 I certainly agree that is what he thought (the Yucatan ruins were discovered after the BofM was published); my point had more to do with the fact that a document written in the 1820's (the Book of Mormon) by a Spaulding-type explanation involving the best scientists of the day would have had no motivation to have tsunamis, volcanism, and earthquakes in the same geographic relationship to the Nephites. Yet that geographic relationship appears to be possible in either NA or SA only in a location off the East Coast of Central America, where the Mayans have been suggested as the Nephites and Lamanites for entirely independent reasons. To see that this is a non-trivial test of the internal consistency of the Book, note from the USGS general earthquake and volcano hazards sites that its hard to find places on the WEST coast of either NA or SA where the combination of geophysical events associated with the catastrophy are NOT possible. I certainly agree that is what he thought (the Yucatan ruins were discovered after the BofM was published); my point had more to do with the fact that a document written in the 1820′s (the Book of Mormon) by a Spaulding-type explanation involving the best scientists of the day would have had no motivation to have tsunamis, volcanism, and earthquakes in the same geographic relationship to the Nephites.

Yet that geographic relationship appears to be possible in either NA or SA only in a location off the East Coast of Central America, where the Mayans have been suggested as the Nephites and Lamanites for entirely independent reasons. To see that this is a non-trivial test of the internal consistency of the Book, note from the USGS general earthquake and volcano hazards sites that its hard to find places on the WEST coast of either NA or SA where the combination of geophysical events associated with the catastrophy are NOT possible.

]]> By: Mormon Heretic http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2225 Mormon Heretic Sun, 31 May 2009 16:57:31 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2225 Firetag, thanks for the links. I'm not sure why your post ended up in my spam filter, but I was able to rescue it. Joseph made many statements about geography, and I believe there were some references in Times and Seasons (which Joseph was editor of) claiming some Nephite cities were found in the Yucatan Peninsula, so I don't think we can rule out Joseph's beliefs in Central America. (These ruins didn't date to the Nephite period, however.) It seems pretty clear to me that Joseph believed that the BoM lands covered North and South America. Firetag, thanks for the links. I’m not sure why your post ended up in my spam filter, but I was able to rescue it.

Joseph made many statements about geography, and I believe there were some references in Times and Seasons (which Joseph was editor of) claiming some Nephite cities were found in the Yucatan Peninsula, so I don’t think we can rule out Joseph’s beliefs in Central America. (These ruins didn’t date to the Nephite period, however.) It seems pretty clear to me that Joseph believed that the BoM lands covered North and South America.

]]> By: FireTag http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/21/a-south-american-model-for-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-2224 FireTag Sat, 30 May 2009 05:15:54 +0000 http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=493#comment-2224 Don't know if you caught the reports of the Honduras earthquake this week in regard to #4 above but this <a href="http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/eqinthenews/2009/us2009heak/" rel="nofollow"> USGS link </a> has some fascinating maps that show the kind of thing that could happen if a great earthquake along the same fault blew out the side of an inactive volcano along the edge of the continental shelf, collapsing it into the trench. Although there is evidence of Holocene (post ice age) but otherwise undated volcanism on the small island at the lower left corner of the 3rd map on the report's map page, there's no evidence to say that such a collapse occurred 2000 years ago. However, I do find it interesting that Joseph described a crucifixion catastrophy that seems to require a combination of volcanism, earthquake, and tsunami that drowns cities on the EAST coast of Nephite lands, does more damage in the land northward than southward, occurs close enough to shore for pyroclastic flows to be over in about 3 hours, and occurs while winds blow the ash cloud consistently to the west for several days. Despite knowing nothing about either plate tectonics or the Maya (and clearing NOT believing in a Central American theory in the 1820s), Joseph puts the Nephites in the geographical position that seems to require such a plate boundary. And the Caribbean Plate is the only plate with a boundary anywhere near the East Coast of either North or South America, and the tropics are where persistent winds blow toward the west. Don’t know if you caught the reports of the Honduras earthquake this week in regard to #4 above but this USGS link has some fascinating maps that show the kind of thing that could happen if a great earthquake along the same fault blew out the side of an inactive volcano along the edge of the continental shelf, collapsing it into the trench.

Although there is evidence of Holocene (post ice age) but otherwise undated volcanism on the small island at the lower left corner of the 3rd map on the report’s map page, there’s no evidence to say that such a collapse occurred 2000 years ago. However, I do find it interesting that Joseph described a crucifixion catastrophy that seems to require a combination of volcanism, earthquake, and tsunami that drowns cities on the EAST coast of Nephite lands, does more damage in the land northward than southward, occurs close enough to shore for pyroclastic flows to be over in about 3 hours, and occurs while winds blow the ash cloud consistently to the west for several days.

Despite knowing nothing about either plate tectonics or the Maya (and clearing NOT believing in a Central American theory in the 1820s), Joseph puts the Nephites in the geographical position that seems to require such a plate boundary. And the Caribbean Plate is the only plate with a boundary anywhere near the East Coast of either North or South America, and the tropics are where persistent winds blow toward the west.

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