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	<title>Comments on: My 2nd Scoop:  A Curious Verse</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/</link>
	<description>Stuff they don't talk about in Sunday School</description>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2200</link>
		<dc:creator>FireTag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2200</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the alert, MH. I saw Morgan&#039;s post, but had trouble remembering where I&#039;d originally made the suggestion about Nephite military unit names being religiously connected to specific number names rather than being literal. Finally realized, when Iaw your comment, that the discussion had started in this thread.

As you probably also noted, Morgan&#039;s previous post is about generating some interest in a conference on looking at the BofM from a military history viewpoint. I heartily encourage him to open this &quot;new front&quot; (couldn&#039;t resist) since it brings to bear additional scientific disciplines on the study of the BofM exactly the way we try to bring all of the sciences to bear in better understanding the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the alert, MH. I saw Morgan&#8217;s post, but had trouble remembering where I&#8217;d originally made the suggestion about Nephite military unit names being religiously connected to specific number names rather than being literal. Finally realized, when Iaw your comment, that the discussion had started in this thread.</p>
<p>As you probably also noted, Morgan&#8217;s previous post is about generating some interest in a conference on looking at the BofM from a military history viewpoint. I heartily encourage him to open this &#8220;new front&#8221; (couldn&#8217;t resist) since it brings to bear additional scientific disciplines on the study of the BofM exactly the way we try to bring all of the sciences to bear in better understanding the Bible.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2198</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 02:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2198</guid>
		<description>Firetag, You inspired a post over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://mormonwar.blogspot.com/2009/05/myriads-of-soldiers.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Morgan&#039;s blog.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firetag, You inspired a post over at <a href="http://mormonwar.blogspot.com/2009/05/myriads-of-soldiers.html" rel="nofollow">Morgan&#8217;s blog.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2101</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 20:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2101</guid>
		<description>David, thanks for the link to the Wiki article.  One of the things that I always find problematic for BoM geography enthusiasts, is that they don&#039;t seem to care that fossils date to the incorrect time period.  In the Wiki article, the bones date to the Ice Age (7000-40000 BC), not the 2500 BC-400 AD period.  While finding an elephant is helpful, the dating of the elephant doesn&#039;t date to the correct time period, and therefore isn&#039;t very helpful to the Baja theory.  But David, please contact me at mormon heretic at gmail dot com.  I&#039;d be happy to do a post on your theory (if it is yours.)  I&#039;ve done that for others, and am currently working on a South American model that you might find interesting.

This sort of info relates to my &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/09/a-radically-different-book-of-mormon-geography-theory/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Radical Geography&lt;/a&gt; post.  Can we put the future geography comments there?  I&#039;d like to keep this post open to Morgan&#039;s theory, which is related more to Warfare in the BoM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thanks for the link to the Wiki article.  One of the things that I always find problematic for BoM geography enthusiasts, is that they don&#8217;t seem to care that fossils date to the incorrect time period.  In the Wiki article, the bones date to the Ice Age (7000-40000 BC), not the 2500 BC-400 AD period.  While finding an elephant is helpful, the dating of the elephant doesn&#8217;t date to the correct time period, and therefore isn&#8217;t very helpful to the Baja theory.  But David, please contact me at mormon heretic at gmail dot com.  I&#8217;d be happy to do a post on your theory (if it is yours.)  I&#8217;ve done that for others, and am currently working on a South American model that you might find interesting.</p>
<p>This sort of info relates to my <a href="http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/09/a-radically-different-book-of-mormon-geography-theory/" rel="nofollow">Radical Geography</a> post.  Can we put the future geography comments there?  I&#8217;d like to keep this post open to Morgan&#8217;s theory, which is related more to Warfare in the BoM.</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2099</link>
		<dc:creator>FireTag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 14:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2099</guid>
		<description>David:

I will be taking a look at the site. I&#039;ll be particularly interested in the timing being proposed. I want to see if it fits as an elaboration of Meso, as well as your premise of an alternative &quot;main stage&quot;.

Hagoth&#039;s colony in the BofM has always seemed to me to require a location in the Meso theory that&#039;s close enough for two-way trade and easy colonization, but which could become quickly isolated in a period of Mayan decline. Baja is a nice place for such a colony, hard to avoid if you leave by ship from the west coast of the Mayan lands and head north, and provides easy access to the heartlands of the later Aztec empire after the mayan collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David:</p>
<p>I will be taking a look at the site. I&#8217;ll be particularly interested in the timing being proposed. I want to see if it fits as an elaboration of Meso, as well as your premise of an alternative &#8220;main stage&#8221;.</p>
<p>Hagoth&#8217;s colony in the BofM has always seemed to me to require a location in the Meso theory that&#8217;s close enough for two-way trade and easy colonization, but which could become quickly isolated in a period of Mayan decline. Baja is a nice place for such a colony, hard to avoid if you leave by ship from the west coast of the Mayan lands and head north, and provides easy access to the heartlands of the later Aztec empire after the mayan collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rosenvall</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2097</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rosenvall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 23:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2097</guid>
		<description>There are many things such as botany and zoology that are more difficult to correlate than the geography.  However, if you visit the museum in Lapaz, located in Baja California, you see that all the of the animals specified in the Book of Mormon such as elephants, horses, sheep, goats, cows, serpents, etc. are documented before the Spanish arrived on the peninsula. In fact one of the current digs has found camels. You can also verify the existence of all the animals mentioned in the Book of Mormon in this general area by studying the Lebrea tar pits in Los Angelos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many things such as botany and zoology that are more difficult to correlate than the geography.  However, if you visit the museum in Lapaz, located in Baja California, you see that all the of the animals specified in the Book of Mormon such as elephants, horses, sheep, goats, cows, serpents, etc. are documented before the Spanish arrived on the peninsula. In fact one of the current digs has found camels. You can also verify the existence of all the animals mentioned in the Book of Mormon in this general area by studying the Lebrea tar pits in Los Angelos (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2096</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 20:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2096</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s funny you asked, David.  I just discovered that theory this week.  I have printed out the 60 pages from the website, but I haven&#039;t been able to do anything except look at the pictures.

I know a proponent of a South American model places great emphasis on a similar Mediterranean climate, so I do find it intriguing.  I guess one of the biggest &quot;flaws&quot; of American based theories is the fact that many animals mentioned in the BoM do not exist in the Americas, such as elephants, horses, and sheep.  How does your theory account for this.

Did you see my 2 posts on the Malay theory?  Here&#039;s the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;theory and map&lt;/a&gt;, and here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/09/a-radically-different-book-of-mormon-geography-theory/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bigger discussion of it.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s funny you asked, David.  I just discovered that theory this week.  I have printed out the 60 pages from the website, but I haven&#8217;t been able to do anything except look at the pictures.</p>
<p>I know a proponent of a South American model places great emphasis on a similar Mediterranean climate, so I do find it intriguing.  I guess one of the biggest &#8220;flaws&#8221; of American based theories is the fact that many animals mentioned in the BoM do not exist in the Americas, such as elephants, horses, and sheep.  How does your theory account for this.</p>
<p>Did you see my 2 posts on the Malay theory?  Here&#8217;s the <a href="http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/" rel="nofollow">theory and map</a>, and here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/09/a-radically-different-book-of-mormon-geography-theory/" rel="nofollow">bigger discussion of it.</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Rosenvall</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2095</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rosenvall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 18:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2095</guid>
		<description>Thinking outside of the box, have you looked at the theory around Baja California (http://www.achoiceland.com).  It starts from the premise of a similar climate to Jerusalem and a large peninsula in North America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking outside of the box, have you looked at the theory around Baja California (<a href="http://www.achoiceland.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.achoiceland.com</a>).  It starts from the premise of a similar climate to Jerusalem and a large peninsula in North America.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2062</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 02:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2062</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t that what happened to Fabius too?  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t that what happened to Fabius too?  <img src='http://www.mormonheretic.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2060</link>
		<dc:creator>FireTag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 02:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2060</guid>
		<description>They started out aiming at Virginia by the conventional route, but got blown North by storms. Couldn&#039;t make it back to Virginia in time for the ships transporting them to return to England before winter (or so the story goes) and had to make a go of it in New England.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They started out aiming at Virginia by the conventional route, but got blown North by storms. Couldn&#8217;t make it back to Virginia in time for the ships transporting them to return to England before winter (or so the story goes) and had to make a go of it in New England.</p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/05/02/my-2nd-scoop-a-curious-verse/comment-page-1/#comment-2057</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 00:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=488#comment-2057</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll have to do a post on the Atlantic/Pacific crossings some time.  I am curious how the Pilgrims got to Plimouth, Mass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have to do a post on the Atlantic/Pacific crossings some time.  I am curious how the Pilgrims got to Plimouth, Mass.</p>
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