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	<title>Comments on: Joseph Smith&#8217;s Presidential Platform</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/</link>
	<description>Stuff they don't talk about in Sunday School</description>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-5241</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-5241</guid>
		<description>Thanks Chris, that 2nd link was fascinating!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Chris, that 2nd link was fascinating!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-5235</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-5235</guid>
		<description>BTW--here&#039;s another great write up on Smith&#039;s platform, with comparisons to modern politicians, some history of how Smith got involved and quotes from the period:

http://www.examiner.com/x-12813-LDS-Church-Examiner~y2009m7d10-Liberal-or-conservative-Joseph-Smiths-1844-presidential-platform</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW&#8211;here&#8217;s another great write up on Smith&#8217;s platform, with comparisons to modern politicians, some history of how Smith got involved and quotes from the period:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-12813-LDS-Church-Examiner~y2009m7d10-Liberal-or-conservative-Joseph-Smiths-1844-presidential-platform" rel="nofollow">http://www.examiner.com/x-12813-LDS-Church-Examiner~y2009m7d10-Liberal-or-conservative-Joseph-Smiths-1844-presidential-platform</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-5234</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-5234</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the actual platform. 
Discussion at: http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/48064-joseph-smith-for-president-fact-check-please/

===========
1. A central banking system owned by the government, with the mother bank at Washington, and branch banks in the several states. 

2. The annexation of Texas upon her application, and the extending of an invitation to Mexico and Canada to become parts of the United States of America.

3. The immediate occupation and settlement of the Oregon region. 

4. The reduction of the National Congress, the House two-thirds and the Senate one-half. 

5. The freedom of the slaves through purchase by the Federal Government; the funds to be obtained by the sale of public lands. 

6. A reform of the prison system, which would make the prisons workhouses and seminaries of learning. 

7. The building by the government of a dam across the Mississippi River at Keokuk (just below Nauvoo) and the construction of locks to aid shipping around the rapids at that place. 

8. A reform of the strict military punishment for desertion in time of war. 

9. A high tariff to protect young industries. 
(William Edwin Berrett, &quot;The Restored Church&quot;, Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 14th ed., pg. 179
================

BTW--a central banking system owned by the government is not the same as the privately owned Federal Reserve. However, no a days the government is owned by the bank cartel, so it&#039;s too late for this solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the actual platform.<br />
Discussion at: <a href="http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/48064-joseph-smith-for-president-fact-check-please/" rel="nofollow">http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/48064-joseph-smith-for-president-fact-check-please/</a></p>
<p>===========<br />
1. A central banking system owned by the government, with the mother bank at Washington, and branch banks in the several states. </p>
<p>2. The annexation of Texas upon her application, and the extending of an invitation to Mexico and Canada to become parts of the United States of America.</p>
<p>3. The immediate occupation and settlement of the Oregon region. </p>
<p>4. The reduction of the National Congress, the House two-thirds and the Senate one-half. </p>
<p>5. The freedom of the slaves through purchase by the Federal Government; the funds to be obtained by the sale of public lands. </p>
<p>6. A reform of the prison system, which would make the prisons workhouses and seminaries of learning. </p>
<p>7. The building by the government of a dam across the Mississippi River at Keokuk (just below Nauvoo) and the construction of locks to aid shipping around the rapids at that place. </p>
<p>8. A reform of the strict military punishment for desertion in time of war. </p>
<p>9. A high tariff to protect young industries.<br />
(William Edwin Berrett, &#8220;The Restored Church&#8221;, Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 14th ed., pg. 179<br />
================</p>
<p>BTW&#8211;a central banking system owned by the government is not the same as the privately owned Federal Reserve. However, no a days the government is owned by the bank cartel, so it&#8217;s too late for this solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Nauvoo Expositor - A Different Perspective</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-2107</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Nauvoo Expositor - A Different Perspective</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 06:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-2107</guid>
		<description>[...] actively trying to expand the borders, including areas of Canada (as I mentioned in my post about Joseph Smith&#8217;s Presidential platform.)  Quinn also states (without footnotes to back it up) on page 134, that Joseph &#8220;had [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] actively trying to expand the borders, including areas of Canada (as I mentioned in my post about Joseph Smith&#8217;s Presidential platform.)  Quinn also states (without footnotes to back it up) on page 134, that Joseph &#8220;had [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheFaithfulDissident</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-1972</link>
		<dc:creator>TheFaithfulDissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-1972</guid>
		<description>Yeah, you&#039;re right!  I need to update my Blogger gravatar as well, so I&#039;ll get one up soon.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, you&#8217;re right!  I need to update my Blogger gravatar as well, so I&#8217;ll get one up soon.  <img src='http://www.mormonheretic.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-1971</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-1971</guid>
		<description>FD,

Thanks for the Wiki link--that was really interesting.  The 1837 part was fascinating because that is during Joseph&#039;s lifetime and adds some interesting perspective!  I hope Ray stops by--he is our resident Manifest Destiny expert.  I see this annexation of Canada as based on MD principles. 

I know that the Mexican-American which freed Texas from Mexico was viewed by many prominent Americans (such as Abraham Lincoln, Generals Sherman, Grant, and Lee) as an immoral war where the US took advantage of Mexico&#039;s weakness and grabbed much of their land.  However, I am also aware that Mexico had a standing policy that Catholicism was the state religion, though it was obviously not enforced well in outlying areas.

Texas has some really interesting history.  Clean Cut did a nice post on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2008/07/mormon-maverick-in-texas-hill-country.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mormon movement in Texas.&lt;/a&gt;

And one other thing, FD, you need to get a gravatar!!!  Check out my post with that name (it&#039;s 3 down).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FD,</p>
<p>Thanks for the Wiki link&#8211;that was really interesting.  The 1837 part was fascinating because that is during Joseph&#8217;s lifetime and adds some interesting perspective!  I hope Ray stops by&#8211;he is our resident Manifest Destiny expert.  I see this annexation of Canada as based on MD principles. </p>
<p>I know that the Mexican-American which freed Texas from Mexico was viewed by many prominent Americans (such as Abraham Lincoln, Generals Sherman, Grant, and Lee) as an immoral war where the US took advantage of Mexico&#8217;s weakness and grabbed much of their land.  However, I am also aware that Mexico had a standing policy that Catholicism was the state religion, though it was obviously not enforced well in outlying areas.</p>
<p>Texas has some really interesting history.  Clean Cut did a nice post on the <a href="http://latterdayspence.blogspot.com/2008/07/mormon-maverick-in-texas-hill-country.html" rel="nofollow">Mormon movement in Texas.</a></p>
<p>And one other thing, FD, you need to get a gravatar!!!  Check out my post with that name (it&#8217;s 3 down).</p>
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		<title>By: TheFaithfulDissident</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-1970</link>
		<dc:creator>TheFaithfulDissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-1970</guid>
		<description>Sorry, that first link didn&#039;t work.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexationist_movements_of_Canada&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here &lt;/a&gt; it is again. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, that first link didn&#8217;t work.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexationist_movements_of_Canada" rel="nofollow">Here </a> it is again. <img src='http://www.mormonheretic.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: TheFaithfulDissident</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-1969</link>
		<dc:creator>TheFaithfulDissident</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-1969</guid>
		<description>Great post, MH!

I&#039;ve heard things over the years about Canadians wanting to join the US, but usually it&#039;s said in jest or anger at Canadian policies.  During the Bush years, I often heard the opposite: that Americans wanted to move to Canada. :)

Anyways, I got my history lesson for the week because there&#039;s an interesting article &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexationist_movements_of_Canada&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; about annexation movements in Canada.&lt;/a&gt;

I also really like the idea about rehabilitating convicts You may remember discussing &lt;a href=&quot;http://thefaithfuldissident.blogspot.com/2008/09/murder-as-bad-as-we-think.htmlit&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on my blog &lt;/a&gt; a few months ago.  I think this is especially a relevant topic for Americans, since your prisons are overflowing and the rate of convicts is growing.  The current system is not working and the cost to society goes way beyond simply what it costs to imprison and feed these people.  If some of them can be rehabilititated (and I realize that&#039;s a big &quot;if&quot; in some cases), it could potentially save the country millions and millions of dollars by having these people live lives of normal, contributing members of society.  I&#039;m skeptical about how this will work with violent criminals and those who have committed sex crimes, but I&#039;m sure that the jails are filled with people who have committed lesser crimes which, though still serious, carry a stronger hope and potential for rehabilitation.  A lot of people object to certain prisoners being given the opportunity to earn a college degree at the tax payer&#039;s expense and I can understand their objections.  After all, it seems unfair that criminals are getting their degree from the comfort of their cell, while law-abiding citizens struggle to be able to afford to send their kids to college.  But when you think ahead to the time when that prisoner gets out of jail and sees no other option but to go on welfare, I wonder how a society can afford NOT to do more to get prisoners ready for the real world again.

I think that balance is important.  There is often a debate in Scandinavia, which has a very low crime rate, but a very lax prison system in the eyes of many.  For instance, a &quot;life sentence&quot; in Norway is 21 years.  Personally, I think it&#039;s crazy that a violent criminal who rapes and kills someone will only be in jail for 21 years.  (There are certain cases where a life sentence truly is a life sentence, but I think it&#039;s relatively rare.)  But then there are plenty of non-violent criminals who are serving sentences which are combined with mandatory community work, perhaps house arrest, and where they are allowed to go to their job but virtually nothing else.  It&#039;s really hard to know sometimes who deserves a second chance and who doesn&#039;t.  I don&#039;t think we can let guys like Bernie Madoff off with a slap on the wrist simply because he isn&#039;t a violent criminal.  And yet it seems equally crazy to lock up 18 and 19 year-olds for petty crimes without considering how or why they got there and why they become repeat offenders.  I don&#039;t think we can &quot;save&quot; everyone, but I think that we can do more.  And that goes for any society.

In regards to taxation, I disagree with JS on low taxation simply because I see things from a modern perspective.  In his day, things like a complex modern infrastructure, universal health care, maternity leave, , unemployment insurance, pension plans, etc, probably weren&#039;t even on the radar.  Today, we (or at least I :)  ) need and want these things and the money has to come from somewhere.  So, while I don&#039;t believe that people should be taxed through the roof, I don&#039;t believe that people are necessarily better off just because they pay little tax.

I wonder what he meant by &quot;liberal pardoning.&quot;  Are you able to elaborate on that any more?

Also, when it comes to securing international rights on the high seas, that certainly seems relevant today.  I&#039;m assuming that there are established international laws at sea, although I don&#039;t really know anything about them, and that all these pirates are in violation of them.  Which is why I would have liked to see an international court handle this Somali pirate case instead of some court in New York.  I think that we&#039;re all a little skeptical of such things after Guantanamo Bay.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, MH!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard things over the years about Canadians wanting to join the US, but usually it&#8217;s said in jest or anger at Canadian policies.  During the Bush years, I often heard the opposite: that Americans wanted to move to Canada. <img src='http://www.mormonheretic.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Anyways, I got my history lesson for the week because there&#8217;s an interesting article <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexationist_movements_of_Canada" rel="nofollow"> about annexation movements in Canada.</a></p>
<p>I also really like the idea about rehabilitating convicts You may remember discussing <a href="http://thefaithfuldissident.blogspot.com/2008/09/murder-as-bad-as-we-think.htmlit" rel="nofollow">on my blog </a> a few months ago.  I think this is especially a relevant topic for Americans, since your prisons are overflowing and the rate of convicts is growing.  The current system is not working and the cost to society goes way beyond simply what it costs to imprison and feed these people.  If some of them can be rehabilititated (and I realize that&#8217;s a big &#8220;if&#8221; in some cases), it could potentially save the country millions and millions of dollars by having these people live lives of normal, contributing members of society.  I&#8217;m skeptical about how this will work with violent criminals and those who have committed sex crimes, but I&#8217;m sure that the jails are filled with people who have committed lesser crimes which, though still serious, carry a stronger hope and potential for rehabilitation.  A lot of people object to certain prisoners being given the opportunity to earn a college degree at the tax payer&#8217;s expense and I can understand their objections.  After all, it seems unfair that criminals are getting their degree from the comfort of their cell, while law-abiding citizens struggle to be able to afford to send their kids to college.  But when you think ahead to the time when that prisoner gets out of jail and sees no other option but to go on welfare, I wonder how a society can afford NOT to do more to get prisoners ready for the real world again.</p>
<p>I think that balance is important.  There is often a debate in Scandinavia, which has a very low crime rate, but a very lax prison system in the eyes of many.  For instance, a &#8220;life sentence&#8221; in Norway is 21 years.  Personally, I think it&#8217;s crazy that a violent criminal who rapes and kills someone will only be in jail for 21 years.  (There are certain cases where a life sentence truly is a life sentence, but I think it&#8217;s relatively rare.)  But then there are plenty of non-violent criminals who are serving sentences which are combined with mandatory community work, perhaps house arrest, and where they are allowed to go to their job but virtually nothing else.  It&#8217;s really hard to know sometimes who deserves a second chance and who doesn&#8217;t.  I don&#8217;t think we can let guys like Bernie Madoff off with a slap on the wrist simply because he isn&#8217;t a violent criminal.  And yet it seems equally crazy to lock up 18 and 19 year-olds for petty crimes without considering how or why they got there and why they become repeat offenders.  I don&#8217;t think we can &#8220;save&#8221; everyone, but I think that we can do more.  And that goes for any society.</p>
<p>In regards to taxation, I disagree with JS on low taxation simply because I see things from a modern perspective.  In his day, things like a complex modern infrastructure, universal health care, maternity leave, , unemployment insurance, pension plans, etc, probably weren&#8217;t even on the radar.  Today, we (or at least I <img src='http://www.mormonheretic.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   ) need and want these things and the money has to come from somewhere.  So, while I don&#8217;t believe that people should be taxed through the roof, I don&#8217;t believe that people are necessarily better off just because they pay little tax.</p>
<p>I wonder what he meant by &#8220;liberal pardoning.&#8221;  Are you able to elaborate on that any more?</p>
<p>Also, when it comes to securing international rights on the high seas, that certainly seems relevant today.  I&#8217;m assuming that there are established international laws at sea, although I don&#8217;t really know anything about them, and that all these pirates are in violation of them.  Which is why I would have liked to see an international court handle this Somali pirate case instead of some court in New York.  I think that we&#8217;re all a little skeptical of such things after Guantanamo Bay.  <img src='http://www.mormonheretic.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-1964</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-1964</guid>
		<description>MP,

How do you think Joseph would have reacted in the Waco raid?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MP,</p>
<p>How do you think Joseph would have reacted in the Waco raid?</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Paleo</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/21/joseph-smiths-presidential-platform/comment-page-1/#comment-1961</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Paleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=448#comment-1961</guid>
		<description>About deficit spending, I am with you 100%.  However, deficit spending was very minimal and almost unheard of until the Federal Reserve and the income tax were created in the early 20th Century.  In other words, low taxes mean low government revenue and small government.

His plans to eradicate slavery were similar to what was done in much of the West (I mean Europe) to eradicate slavery peacefully.

By the way, the Civil War was fought over preserving the Union, not eradicating slavery.  That&#039;s a popular myth.  Lincoln himself admitted he would have permitted slavery if it would have preserved the Union.

Rehabbing convicts is great.

By free trade, he means no tariffs with other countries.  This has nothing to do with NAFTA, which is a modern-day bureaucratic organization dedicated to free trade in name only.  He does not advocate compromising national sovereignty by getting involved in entangling alliances.  This was a no-no until Woodrow Wilson in the early 20th Century.  He means that with no tariffs, Americans would be able to export and import very inexpensively.

I agree a National Bank is a very bad idea.  Andrew Jackson successfully defeated the first American Central Bank a few years before his run.  The Federal Reserve is the most destructive economic institution in America, and is almost singlehandedly responsible for every bust and boom since its creation.  I think I can safely say that.  Far better to support a hard monetary, free banking policy.

Getting involved in state disturbances would be a potentially dangerous move away from federalism (balance of power between state and federal governments).  But if he restricts his involvement to restoring confiscated property in ways that states could not resolve, this may not be a bad idea.  Of course, we believe in federalism today in name only.

Annexing large areas would be not ideal, but it happened anyway.  A skeptic may call James K. Polk quite an imperialist.  Not sure about Canada: War of 1812 didn&#039;t go so well, and I don&#039;t think the U.S. was ready for war with Britain again.

In summary, a huge upgrade from anything available today, with the exception of the National Bank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About deficit spending, I am with you 100%.  However, deficit spending was very minimal and almost unheard of until the Federal Reserve and the income tax were created in the early 20th Century.  In other words, low taxes mean low government revenue and small government.</p>
<p>His plans to eradicate slavery were similar to what was done in much of the West (I mean Europe) to eradicate slavery peacefully.</p>
<p>By the way, the Civil War was fought over preserving the Union, not eradicating slavery.  That&#8217;s a popular myth.  Lincoln himself admitted he would have permitted slavery if it would have preserved the Union.</p>
<p>Rehabbing convicts is great.</p>
<p>By free trade, he means no tariffs with other countries.  This has nothing to do with NAFTA, which is a modern-day bureaucratic organization dedicated to free trade in name only.  He does not advocate compromising national sovereignty by getting involved in entangling alliances.  This was a no-no until Woodrow Wilson in the early 20th Century.  He means that with no tariffs, Americans would be able to export and import very inexpensively.</p>
<p>I agree a National Bank is a very bad idea.  Andrew Jackson successfully defeated the first American Central Bank a few years before his run.  The Federal Reserve is the most destructive economic institution in America, and is almost singlehandedly responsible for every bust and boom since its creation.  I think I can safely say that.  Far better to support a hard monetary, free banking policy.</p>
<p>Getting involved in state disturbances would be a potentially dangerous move away from federalism (balance of power between state and federal governments).  But if he restricts his involvement to restoring confiscated property in ways that states could not resolve, this may not be a bad idea.  Of course, we believe in federalism today in name only.</p>
<p>Annexing large areas would be not ideal, but it happened anyway.  A skeptic may call James K. Polk quite an imperialist.  Not sure about Canada: War of 1812 didn&#8217;t go so well, and I don&#8217;t think the U.S. was ready for war with Britain again.</p>
<p>In summary, a huge upgrade from anything available today, with the exception of the National Bank.</p>
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