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	<title>Comments on: My First Scoop!  The Unpublished Malay Theory</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/</link>
	<description>Stuff they don't talk about in Sunday School</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:31:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Mormon Heretic &#187; Foundations of Book of Mormon Archaeology</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-5051</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic &#187; Foundations of Book of Mormon Archaeology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-5051</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve talked previously about other theories, including South America, New York, and the Malay Theory, but Mesoamerica is by far the leading theory among Book of Mormon geography buffs.  So, what do [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve talked previously about other theories, including South America, New York, and the Malay Theory, but Mesoamerica is by far the leading theory among Book of Mormon geography buffs.  So, what do [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Internet vs. Chapel Mormons &#8212; Yet another divider &#171; Irresistible (Dis)Grace</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2879</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet vs. Chapel Mormons &#8212; Yet another divider &#171; Irresistible (Dis)Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2879</guid>
		<description>[...] sound. I never heard about the idea of a localized flood, or of non-continental (not to mention other theories) Book of Mormon geography in a correlated lesson at church. And while I think some apologetic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sound. I never heard about the idea of a localized flood, or of non-continental (not to mention other theories) Book of Mormon geography in a correlated lesson at church. And while I think some apologetic [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2280</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2280</guid>
		<description>Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2274</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2274</guid>
		<description>Ok, Rob, I just tested it and it appears to be working now.  I&#039;m not sure what the problem was...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Rob, I just tested it and it appears to be working now.  I&#8217;m not sure what the problem was&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2264</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 05:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2264</guid>
		<description>Rob, thanks for letting me know.  It was working earlier today, but it&#039;s not anymore.  I&#039;ll look into this and let you know when it is fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, thanks for letting me know.  It was working earlier today, but it&#8217;s not anymore.  I&#8217;ll look into this and let you know when it is fixed.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2262</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 04:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2262</guid>
		<description>Hi MH,

Very fascinating stuff.  FYI, the link to the 300 pg document doesn&#039;t seem to be working--instead my computer keeps downloading only 640k of a pdf file that won&#039;t open because it&#039;s &quot;corrupt&quot;.  my guess is it is downloading just the first 640k and stopping.  could you please verify that the link is working on your end?  I&#039;ve tried both IE and firefox.

Thanks,
Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi MH,</p>
<p>Very fascinating stuff.  FYI, the link to the 300 pg document doesn&#8217;t seem to be working&#8211;instead my computer keeps downloading only 640k of a pdf file that won&#8217;t open because it&#8217;s &#8220;corrupt&#8221;.  my guess is it is downloading just the first 640k and stopping.  could you please verify that the link is working on your end?  I&#8217;ve tried both IE and firefox.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Rob</p>
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		<title>By: ZSorenson</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2115</link>
		<dc:creator>ZSorenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 19:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2115</guid>
		<description>An early review after a few chapters of Atlantis finally found by Aryos Santos:

This book seems to be a collection of sort of hard to follow papers.  As such, it seems a little disconnected and repetitive at the same time.

Some of the connections made are based on appeals to conventional wisdom or curious internet websites or forced linguistic analyses.  So, you&#039;ve got that.

Still, the whole picture seems very plausible:
That during the Ice Age the islands of Indonesia were a fertile continent (lower sea levels exposed sea floor there).  The rest of the world was mostly desert or ice (with the exception of some savannah).

Supposedly, homo sapiens is a million+ years old.  So, why has civilization only developed as of 11,000 years?

The author says it developed in Indonesia ages ago, and the explosion of ancient Krakatoa caused an instant flooding followed by a series of events that ended the ice age (and led to further disasters in the rest of the world).  The people of this civilization fled and spread basic agricultural techiniques, domestic animals, and religion/culture/alphabet etc., to the corners of the earth.

The author connects words and traditions of cultures from the Aztecs to the Celts to ancient Greece and Hindu tradition and finds many parallels specifically concerning the origin of their respective cultures.  He argues that a civilization that developed agriculture would laud itself for the discovery and so forth.  However, most traditions cite a precursor that gave the knowledge.  

He associates the literal geographic location of the Indonesian islands as being referred to by all these cultures as Eden/Hell/Paradise Lost/Islands of the Blest/Land of the Dead and so forth.  The location has all the riches and spices and so forth cited by the legends.

Oh, there are undersea ancient river beds for rivers that flowed from near the location of the Mt. Atlas (Krakatoa) in each of the four cardinal directions.

Well, that&#039;s about it so far.  He talks a lot about archetypes: Hercules/Atlas, Virgin Mother/Son, the fall of man, etc.  He tries to explain them through this supposedly literal common cultural event.

In any case, despite holes significant, the theory seems very plausible just from a geographic and geological perspective.  

Adding in gospel tradition, couldn&#039;t this place be the cite of Eden/Adam-ondi-ahman/Cain&#039;s City of Enoch/Enoch&#039;s City of Zion/Noah&#039;s flood? 

Seems very likely.

So, the &#039;specialness&#039; of the place seems established.  Thus, sending the Jaredites and Lehites there would be consistent with it as a promised land.

In fact, the only missing link is what the role of the American continent is.  It seems plausible that the Nephites could have migrate from Polynesia to part of America.  

Plus, you have to reconcile that 2 Nephi discusses the Lehite promised land as free from other nations.  Perhaps that means the mean empires of the Near-Orient?

Well, according to Prof. Santos (author of book), the Indonesian islands were sort of taboo in the ancient world.  In fact, he supposes that the esoteric mystery traditions of the ancient world both named the specific place as the islands of the blessed and alternatively forbad revealing this to the profane masses (as a remnant of the wishes of the original colonizing &#039;Atlanteans&#039;) 

So if the ancient world somehow knew the place was the sacred Paradise lost, and avoided the place, why not send the righteous remnant of israel there?

The ironic thing is that America was discovered as the &#039;West Indies&#039; - a land of plenty named after the originally sought-after, possibly more plentiful &#039;East Indies&#039;.  So, because the Jacob 5 parable lists the Lehite lands as the best in the garden, why not Malaysia??

So, who knows?  Lots of holes here, but fascinating!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An early review after a few chapters of Atlantis finally found by Aryos Santos:</p>
<p>This book seems to be a collection of sort of hard to follow papers.  As such, it seems a little disconnected and repetitive at the same time.</p>
<p>Some of the connections made are based on appeals to conventional wisdom or curious internet websites or forced linguistic analyses.  So, you&#8217;ve got that.</p>
<p>Still, the whole picture seems very plausible:<br />
That during the Ice Age the islands of Indonesia were a fertile continent (lower sea levels exposed sea floor there).  The rest of the world was mostly desert or ice (with the exception of some savannah).</p>
<p>Supposedly, homo sapiens is a million+ years old.  So, why has civilization only developed as of 11,000 years?</p>
<p>The author says it developed in Indonesia ages ago, and the explosion of ancient Krakatoa caused an instant flooding followed by a series of events that ended the ice age (and led to further disasters in the rest of the world).  The people of this civilization fled and spread basic agricultural techiniques, domestic animals, and religion/culture/alphabet etc., to the corners of the earth.</p>
<p>The author connects words and traditions of cultures from the Aztecs to the Celts to ancient Greece and Hindu tradition and finds many parallels specifically concerning the origin of their respective cultures.  He argues that a civilization that developed agriculture would laud itself for the discovery and so forth.  However, most traditions cite a precursor that gave the knowledge.  </p>
<p>He associates the literal geographic location of the Indonesian islands as being referred to by all these cultures as Eden/Hell/Paradise Lost/Islands of the Blest/Land of the Dead and so forth.  The location has all the riches and spices and so forth cited by the legends.</p>
<p>Oh, there are undersea ancient river beds for rivers that flowed from near the location of the Mt. Atlas (Krakatoa) in each of the four cardinal directions.</p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s about it so far.  He talks a lot about archetypes: Hercules/Atlas, Virgin Mother/Son, the fall of man, etc.  He tries to explain them through this supposedly literal common cultural event.</p>
<p>In any case, despite holes significant, the theory seems very plausible just from a geographic and geological perspective.  </p>
<p>Adding in gospel tradition, couldn&#8217;t this place be the cite of Eden/Adam-ondi-ahman/Cain&#8217;s City of Enoch/Enoch&#8217;s City of Zion/Noah&#8217;s flood? </p>
<p>Seems very likely.</p>
<p>So, the &#8217;specialness&#8217; of the place seems established.  Thus, sending the Jaredites and Lehites there would be consistent with it as a promised land.</p>
<p>In fact, the only missing link is what the role of the American continent is.  It seems plausible that the Nephites could have migrate from Polynesia to part of America.  </p>
<p>Plus, you have to reconcile that 2 Nephi discusses the Lehite promised land as free from other nations.  Perhaps that means the mean empires of the Near-Orient?</p>
<p>Well, according to Prof. Santos (author of book), the Indonesian islands were sort of taboo in the ancient world.  In fact, he supposes that the esoteric mystery traditions of the ancient world both named the specific place as the islands of the blessed and alternatively forbad revealing this to the profane masses (as a remnant of the wishes of the original colonizing &#8216;Atlanteans&#8217;) </p>
<p>So if the ancient world somehow knew the place was the sacred Paradise lost, and avoided the place, why not send the righteous remnant of israel there?</p>
<p>The ironic thing is that America was discovered as the &#8216;West Indies&#8217; &#8211; a land of plenty named after the originally sought-after, possibly more plentiful &#8216;East Indies&#8217;.  So, because the Jacob 5 parable lists the Lehite lands as the best in the garden, why not Malaysia??</p>
<p>So, who knows?  Lots of holes here, but fascinating!</p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2091</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 01:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2091</guid>
		<description>Firetag--well said.  That is the biggest reason I want to learn BoM geography.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firetag&#8211;well said.  That is the biggest reason I want to learn BoM geography.</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2090</link>
		<dc:creator>FireTag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 23:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2090</guid>
		<description>The Times and Seasons discussion is good. It strikes me that we may be thinking about &quot;why&quot; backwards. If I accept the Bible as true, and understand the culture in which it took place, I better understand the deeper meanings of the Bible. If I accept the Book of Mormon as true, AND UNDERSTAND THE CULTURES IN WHICH IT TOOK PLACE, I better understand the deeper meanings of the Book of Mormon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Times and Seasons discussion is good. It strikes me that we may be thinking about &#8220;why&#8221; backwards. If I accept the Bible as true, and understand the culture in which it took place, I better understand the deeper meanings of the Bible. If I accept the Book of Mormon as true, AND UNDERSTAND THE CULTURES IN WHICH IT TOOK PLACE, I better understand the deeper meanings of the Book of Mormon.</p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/18/my-first-scoop-the-unpublished-malay-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-2087</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=424#comment-2087</guid>
		<description>I just found a discussion at Times and Seasons from 2004.

http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/04/the-malaysian-model/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found a discussion at Times and Seasons from 2004.</p>
<p><a href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/04/the-malaysian-model/" rel="nofollow">http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/04/the-malaysian-model/</a></p>
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