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	<title>Comments on: Adding a Little Color to the GA&#8217;s</title>
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	<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/</link>
	<description>Stuff they don't talk about in Sunday School</description>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-4255</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-4255</guid>
		<description>FireTag, That is a good idea for a future post, but let me try to answer it briefly here.  Michael Quinn discusses this in his book &quot;Origins of Power.&quot;

If my memory serves me correctly, in the early days of the church, Seventies were part of every stake in the Kirtland and Nauvoo days.  I believe the Presidents of the 10 quorums of 70 were considered &quot;General Authorities&quot;, while the rest of the members were &quot;regular&quot; Seventies whose primary role was missionary work.  Elijah Abel (a Black Mormon), was a &quot;regular&quot; Seventy, and served several missions with apostles including Lorenzo Snow and Wilford Woodruff (future prophets).  I&#039;m not exactly sure how these quorums continued to evolve--I&#039;ll have to check Quinn.  I know that my dad (definitely not a GA) was a Seventy in my stake and that position was eliminated probably around 1976 or so, and he was ordained a High Priest at that time.

By the 1950&#039;s-70&#039;s, many people were called as &quot;Special Assistants&quot; to the Twelve.  (Pres Hinckley served as a special assistant.)  Many of these special assistants assisted with stake reorganizations, and other needs of the 12.  I suspect there were so many special assistants, that Pres Kimball wanted to organize them back into the former organization of the 10 Quorums of Seventy as in the days of the early church.  Most of these special assistants were ordained to the office of Seventy.  The position of Area Authority was created in the 1980&#039;s I believe.  I think that became unwieldy as well, and in 1989, Pres Benson decided to put them in additional Quorums of 70.  The First Quorum of Seventy serve for life, while Quorums 2-8 (max of 10) serve a 5 year term.  Only the First Quorum are considered General Authorities (living generally in SLC); the others are considered Area Authorities, live in the area of the world, and keep their full-time jobs.

Each Quorum has well under 70 members--I suspect they are only about 40-50 members per quorum.  With 2800 stakes across the world, the Seventies continue to supervise missions and stakes across the world.

The High Council serves a completely different function--they serve on a stake level, and basically supervise the wards on behalf of the Stake President.  Quinn makes some interesting claims that the High Council was on par with the Twelve in the Nauvoo days, which would be quite startling for most Mormons to know.  That definitely sounds like a great future post topic.  I just bought Quinn&#039;s book, and received it in the mail last week, so I will have to review that information.  Quinn says there was a real power struggle between the Twelve and the High Council over who should lead.  (Of course, Brigham Young won--at least from the LDS point of view.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FireTag, That is a good idea for a future post, but let me try to answer it briefly here.  Michael Quinn discusses this in his book &#8220;Origins of Power.&#8221;</p>
<p>If my memory serves me correctly, in the early days of the church, Seventies were part of every stake in the Kirtland and Nauvoo days.  I believe the Presidents of the 10 quorums of 70 were considered &#8220;General Authorities&#8221;, while the rest of the members were &#8220;regular&#8221; Seventies whose primary role was missionary work.  Elijah Abel (a Black Mormon), was a &#8220;regular&#8221; Seventy, and served several missions with apostles including Lorenzo Snow and Wilford Woodruff (future prophets).  I&#8217;m not exactly sure how these quorums continued to evolve&#8211;I&#8217;ll have to check Quinn.  I know that my dad (definitely not a GA) was a Seventy in my stake and that position was eliminated probably around 1976 or so, and he was ordained a High Priest at that time.</p>
<p>By the 1950&#8242;s-70&#8242;s, many people were called as &#8220;Special Assistants&#8221; to the Twelve.  (Pres Hinckley served as a special assistant.)  Many of these special assistants assisted with stake reorganizations, and other needs of the 12.  I suspect there were so many special assistants, that Pres Kimball wanted to organize them back into the former organization of the 10 Quorums of Seventy as in the days of the early church.  Most of these special assistants were ordained to the office of Seventy.  The position of Area Authority was created in the 1980&#8242;s I believe.  I think that became unwieldy as well, and in 1989, Pres Benson decided to put them in additional Quorums of 70.  The First Quorum of Seventy serve for life, while Quorums 2-8 (max of 10) serve a 5 year term.  Only the First Quorum are considered General Authorities (living generally in SLC); the others are considered Area Authorities, live in the area of the world, and keep their full-time jobs.</p>
<p>Each Quorum has well under 70 members&#8211;I suspect they are only about 40-50 members per quorum.  With 2800 stakes across the world, the Seventies continue to supervise missions and stakes across the world.</p>
<p>The High Council serves a completely different function&#8211;they serve on a stake level, and basically supervise the wards on behalf of the Stake President.  Quinn makes some interesting claims that the High Council was on par with the Twelve in the Nauvoo days, which would be quite startling for most Mormons to know.  That definitely sounds like a great future post topic.  I just bought Quinn&#8217;s book, and received it in the mail last week, so I will have to review that information.  Quinn says there was a real power struggle between the Twelve and the High Council over who should lead.  (Of course, Brigham Young won&#8211;at least from the LDS point of view.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bishop Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-4254</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishop Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-4254</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s right...Elder Lee. I remember how shocked everyone was when he was excommunicated. He was looked highly upon. I remember him as an eloquent speaker.

Your correct about him being excommunicated in 1989 and arrested in 1990, but he was arrested for molestation that took place prior to 1989. The facts are he claimed to be having a polygamous relationship with the 12 year old. This, along with his belief that Lamanites (direct descendants of Israel) would be the prominent leaders in creating the new Jerusalem with Whites (adopted into Israel) having a secondary role, were why he was charged with apostacy.

He actually plead guilty to molestation though, so I have to wonder if he really was trying to live a polygamous relationship, or if he used that as a cover-up.

Like you, I am not aware of any other Native American GA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right&#8230;Elder Lee. I remember how shocked everyone was when he was excommunicated. He was looked highly upon. I remember him as an eloquent speaker.</p>
<p>Your correct about him being excommunicated in 1989 and arrested in 1990, but he was arrested for molestation that took place prior to 1989. The facts are he claimed to be having a polygamous relationship with the 12 year old. This, along with his belief that Lamanites (direct descendants of Israel) would be the prominent leaders in creating the new Jerusalem with Whites (adopted into Israel) having a secondary role, were why he was charged with apostacy.</p>
<p>He actually plead guilty to molestation though, so I have to wonder if he really was trying to live a polygamous relationship, or if he used that as a cover-up.</p>
<p>Like you, I am not aware of any other Native American GA.</p>
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		<title>By: FireTag</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-4252</link>
		<dc:creator>FireTag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-4252</guid>
		<description>MH;

In reading the OP I noticed another difference I wish you&#039;d explain. How did it come about historically that two quorums became GA&#039;s while other quorums became AA&#039;s?

We&#039;ve never come close to filling our Quorums of Seventies, and until recently I don&#039;t know what rationale was used to assign 70s to quorums (now a quorum roughly supports the fields of 2 Apostles geographically). But I don&#039;t know of a time when the Presidents of the Seven Quorums didn&#039;t have a separate status roughly on a par with the High Council.

Something for the future post page?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MH;</p>
<p>In reading the OP I noticed another difference I wish you&#8217;d explain. How did it come about historically that two quorums became GA&#8217;s while other quorums became AA&#8217;s?</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve never come close to filling our Quorums of Seventies, and until recently I don&#8217;t know what rationale was used to assign 70s to quorums (now a quorum roughly supports the fields of 2 Apostles geographically). But I don&#8217;t know of a time when the Presidents of the Seven Quorums didn&#8217;t have a separate status roughly on a par with the High Council.</p>
<p>Something for the future post page?</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-4250</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-4250</guid>
		<description>Bishop Rick, I meant I couldn&#039;t think of any &lt;i&gt;current&lt;/i&gt; Native American GA&#039;s.  Yes George P Lee (a Navajo) was ordained a Seventy in 1975.  He was excommunicated for apostasy in 1989.  In 1994 he was arrested for molesting a 12-year old girl.  I don&#039;t believe another Native American has been called as a GA, and I didn&#039;t see any Native-American sounding names on the list I checked.  Of course, Lee isn&#039;t a Native-American sounding name either, so I may have missed some.  Certainly there are none with as high of a profile as Elder Lee in the past 20 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bishop Rick, I meant I couldn&#8217;t think of any <i>current</i> Native American GA&#8217;s.  Yes George P Lee (a Navajo) was ordained a Seventy in 1975.  He was excommunicated for apostasy in 1989.  In 1994 he was arrested for molesting a 12-year old girl.  I don&#8217;t believe another Native American has been called as a GA, and I didn&#8217;t see any Native-American sounding names on the list I checked.  Of course, Lee isn&#8217;t a Native-American sounding name either, so I may have missed some.  Certainly there are none with as high of a profile as Elder Lee in the past 20 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Bishop Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-4247</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishop Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-4247</guid>
		<description>MH, you mention that you are not aware of a Native American GA. I remember there was a GA that was Native American. Unfortunately he was excommunicated after pedophilia was discovered. I can&#039;t remember his name.

Regarding racism, I will not be convinced otherwise until there is a Black Apostle. Someone with a chance at becoming president of the church. Until that happens, its all token appointments to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MH, you mention that you are not aware of a Native American GA. I remember there was a GA that was Native American. Unfortunately he was excommunicated after pedophilia was discovered. I can&#8217;t remember his name.</p>
<p>Regarding racism, I will not be convinced otherwise until there is a Black Apostle. Someone with a chance at becoming president of the church. Until that happens, its all token appointments to me.</p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-2360</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-2360</guid>
		<description>TH posted a link to a document titled &quot;We Share&quot; which talks about CoC beliefs.  The section &quot;Unity in Diversity&quot; brought this conversation to my mind.  It is something I think the LDS should better embrace and understand when talking about diversity.  (I&#039;ve added some emphasis to some of these points.)

&lt;b&gt;Unity in Diversity&lt;/b&gt;

• The Community of Christ is a diverse, international family of disciples, seekers, and congregations.

• Local and worldwide ministries are interdependent and important to the church’s mission.

• The church embraces &lt;b&gt;diversity and unity through the power of the Holy Spirit.&lt;/b&gt;

• We seek agreement or common consent in important matters. If we cannot achieve agreement, &lt;b&gt;we commit to ongoing dialogue and lovingly uphold our common faith in Jesus Christ&lt;/b&gt; and the mission of the
church.

• We confess that our lack of agreement on certain matters is hurtful to some of God’s beloved children and creation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TH posted a link to a document titled &#8220;We Share&#8221; which talks about CoC beliefs.  The section &#8220;Unity in Diversity&#8221; brought this conversation to my mind.  It is something I think the LDS should better embrace and understand when talking about diversity.  (I&#8217;ve added some emphasis to some of these points.)</p>
<p><b>Unity in Diversity</b></p>
<p>• The Community of Christ is a diverse, international family of disciples, seekers, and congregations.</p>
<p>• Local and worldwide ministries are interdependent and important to the church’s mission.</p>
<p>• The church embraces <b>diversity and unity through the power of the Holy Spirit.</b></p>
<p>• We seek agreement or common consent in important matters. If we cannot achieve agreement, <b>we commit to ongoing dialogue and lovingly uphold our common faith in Jesus Christ</b> and the mission of the<br />
church.</p>
<p>• We confess that our lack of agreement on certain matters is hurtful to some of God’s beloved children and creation.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-2315</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-2315</guid>
		<description>Tara, it&#039;s obvious we see this issue differently.  You make some valid points, but as I said before, if the church was more homogenous with regards to race, then I would view that as a wonderful development.

20 years ago, Elder Helvicio Martens was called to be the first black general authority.  I was on my mission at the time in the southern US, and was ecstatic, because we taught so many black people.  Some of them wouldn&#039;t join because they thought the church was too white.  I enthusiastically carried around the photos of the GA&#039;s around.  When they would ask me why there weren&#039;t any blacks, I would always point to Elder Martens.  They viewed this as pitiful, but at least it was a start.

In my last area, a bishop was called who was black.  He was an outstanding bishop, and greatly helped the work of the Lord.  His call was inspired.  Black general authorities do not need to come from Africa, or Brazil.  We have many outstanding black church members here in the US.  

Yes, it does take time for some blacks to be trained in leadership, but if we can accept converts like Pres Uchtdorf, Hartman Rector, and Elder Sitate to become GA&#039;s in less than a lifetime, then I think that there are plenty of righteous people in all races that could do as good of a job as these three men.  20 years is too long between black general authorities, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tara, it&#8217;s obvious we see this issue differently.  You make some valid points, but as I said before, if the church was more homogenous with regards to race, then I would view that as a wonderful development.</p>
<p>20 years ago, Elder Helvicio Martens was called to be the first black general authority.  I was on my mission at the time in the southern US, and was ecstatic, because we taught so many black people.  Some of them wouldn&#8217;t join because they thought the church was too white.  I enthusiastically carried around the photos of the GA&#8217;s around.  When they would ask me why there weren&#8217;t any blacks, I would always point to Elder Martens.  They viewed this as pitiful, but at least it was a start.</p>
<p>In my last area, a bishop was called who was black.  He was an outstanding bishop, and greatly helped the work of the Lord.  His call was inspired.  Black general authorities do not need to come from Africa, or Brazil.  We have many outstanding black church members here in the US.  </p>
<p>Yes, it does take time for some blacks to be trained in leadership, but if we can accept converts like Pres Uchtdorf, Hartman Rector, and Elder Sitate to become GA&#8217;s in less than a lifetime, then I think that there are plenty of righteous people in all races that could do as good of a job as these three men.  20 years is too long between black general authorities, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m no statistician, but the information I would think needs to be considered is first of all, what percentage of church membership is African (or whatever other race or skin color you want to ensure equality for), and then compare that to the percentage of African GA&#039;s (or whatever other calling you think they should have).  Then DB makes a good point about ecclesiastical maturity--that needs to be accounted for.  Then I think you need to consider the African population (in other countries) and their own need for priesthood leadership at lower levels from the more ecclesiastically mature priesthood holders to ensure that those resources are used where they are needed most.  Positions in the upper ranks of church hierarchy might not necessarily be where their talents are needed most.  Knowing that there are probably other things that church leaders take into account when issuing calls, there are most likely other variables that I wouldn&#039;t have considered.  Admittedly, we won&#039;t have access to a lot of information needed to include these variables in the numbers.  That&#039;s why I think it&#039;s best to defer to the players on the field.  We don&#039;t see what they see.

I&#039;m glad you see progress.  But I also see that you don&#039;t think it&#039;s good enough.  That stands out to me and concerns me.  I see it as divisive.  That&#039;s why criticism of our church leaders is such a serious matter.  It&#039;s divisive.  Christ calls us to be united and as one, but publishing and publicly discussing our discontent with church leaders does not breed unity.

Am I glad Elder Sitate was called?  I don&#039;t know the man personally, so I can&#039;t say if I&#039;m glad.  I can say the same of any white GA who is called that I don&#039;t know personally.  If you want to know if I&#039;m glad he was called because he is black, the answer is no more than I would be if someone white was called instead.  It isn&#039;t a matter that I&#039;m concerned over because I don&#039;t believe the leaders of the church are racist.  Or if they are, how can I know for sure?  It isn&#039;t my place to judge them without even knowing them personally, or without sufficient insight into their inspiration and decision making.

You say you want there to be no more -ites in the church, but there always will be as long as we are concerned about whether or not we have enough diversity or if we are looking for racism or assume there&#039;s racism because the numbers say there is.  We only see -ites if we are looking for them or are rallying to advance them and single them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m no statistician, but the information I would think needs to be considered is first of all, what percentage of church membership is African (or whatever other race or skin color you want to ensure equality for), and then compare that to the percentage of African GA&#8217;s (or whatever other calling you think they should have).  Then DB makes a good point about ecclesiastical maturity&#8211;that needs to be accounted for.  Then I think you need to consider the African population (in other countries) and their own need for priesthood leadership at lower levels from the more ecclesiastically mature priesthood holders to ensure that those resources are used where they are needed most.  Positions in the upper ranks of church hierarchy might not necessarily be where their talents are needed most.  Knowing that there are probably other things that church leaders take into account when issuing calls, there are most likely other variables that I wouldn&#8217;t have considered.  Admittedly, we won&#8217;t have access to a lot of information needed to include these variables in the numbers.  That&#8217;s why I think it&#8217;s best to defer to the players on the field.  We don&#8217;t see what they see.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you see progress.  But I also see that you don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s good enough.  That stands out to me and concerns me.  I see it as divisive.  That&#8217;s why criticism of our church leaders is such a serious matter.  It&#8217;s divisive.  Christ calls us to be united and as one, but publishing and publicly discussing our discontent with church leaders does not breed unity.</p>
<p>Am I glad Elder Sitate was called?  I don&#8217;t know the man personally, so I can&#8217;t say if I&#8217;m glad.  I can say the same of any white GA who is called that I don&#8217;t know personally.  If you want to know if I&#8217;m glad he was called because he is black, the answer is no more than I would be if someone white was called instead.  It isn&#8217;t a matter that I&#8217;m concerned over because I don&#8217;t believe the leaders of the church are racist.  Or if they are, how can I know for sure?  It isn&#8217;t my place to judge them without even knowing them personally, or without sufficient insight into their inspiration and decision making.</p>
<p>You say you want there to be no more -ites in the church, but there always will be as long as we are concerned about whether or not we have enough diversity or if we are looking for racism or assume there&#8217;s racism because the numbers say there is.  We only see -ites if we are looking for them or are rallying to advance them and single them out.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You look at raw numbers without accounting for the variables and see racism. &lt;/i&gt;

Tara, what are the variables I should be accounting for?  I have had a considerable amount of training in statistics.  You bring up a good point here, which is the idea of a &quot;confounder&quot;.

20-30 years ago, there was a study done which seemed to show that sugar caused heart attacks.  It turns out sugar was a confounder.  Later studies showed that smokers consumed a much larger amount of sugar (usually in coffee, but in candy as well) than non-smokers.  So, the real culprit of heart attacks was smoking, rather than sugar.  When sugar was controlled for between smokers and non-smokers, sugar ceased to show a link to heart attacks.  So sugar was a confounder--it was covering up smoking as the real problem.  What are the confounders I should be considering on this issue?

I am really surprised why you view this post so negatively.  I have seen progress in the church regarding race, and Elder Sitate&#039;s call is proof of that.  This is something to be celebrated.  We&#039;ve come a long was since John Taylor&#039;s statement that blacks exist to represent Satan (for an opposition of all things.)  Sure, we&#039;ve got progress to go still, but aren&#039;t you also glad Elder Sitate was called?

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Right now, claims of racism, and classism, and religionism, and numerous other isms are dividing our country&quot;&lt;/i&gt;  I agree!  That&#039;s why I would like to see more diversity, and less segregation in our church.  The general authorities should lead by example.  I would love to see no -ites in our church as in the days of 4 Nephi.  But until we can truly integrate the world into our leadership, then we are a long way from getting rid of -ites.

This isn&#039;t without challenges.  Firetag has mentioned on some other posts here that diversity brings its own challenges.  Perhaps that is why the brethren move slower than I would like.  But I am glad they are moving in the right direction.  Elder Sitate&#039;s call is proof of that, and that is something we should all celebrate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You look at raw numbers without accounting for the variables and see racism. </i></p>
<p>Tara, what are the variables I should be accounting for?  I have had a considerable amount of training in statistics.  You bring up a good point here, which is the idea of a &#8220;confounder&#8221;.</p>
<p>20-30 years ago, there was a study done which seemed to show that sugar caused heart attacks.  It turns out sugar was a confounder.  Later studies showed that smokers consumed a much larger amount of sugar (usually in coffee, but in candy as well) than non-smokers.  So, the real culprit of heart attacks was smoking, rather than sugar.  When sugar was controlled for between smokers and non-smokers, sugar ceased to show a link to heart attacks.  So sugar was a confounder&#8211;it was covering up smoking as the real problem.  What are the confounders I should be considering on this issue?</p>
<p>I am really surprised why you view this post so negatively.  I have seen progress in the church regarding race, and Elder Sitate&#8217;s call is proof of that.  This is something to be celebrated.  We&#8217;ve come a long was since John Taylor&#8217;s statement that blacks exist to represent Satan (for an opposition of all things.)  Sure, we&#8217;ve got progress to go still, but aren&#8217;t you also glad Elder Sitate was called?</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Right now, claims of racism, and classism, and religionism, and numerous other isms are dividing our country&#8221;</i>  I agree!  That&#8217;s why I would like to see more diversity, and less segregation in our church.  The general authorities should lead by example.  I would love to see no -ites in our church as in the days of 4 Nephi.  But until we can truly integrate the world into our leadership, then we are a long way from getting rid of -ites.</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t without challenges.  Firetag has mentioned on some other posts here that diversity brings its own challenges.  Perhaps that is why the brethren move slower than I would like.  But I am glad they are moving in the right direction.  Elder Sitate&#8217;s call is proof of that, and that is something we should all celebrate.</p>
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		<title>By: Tara</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/04/06/adding-a-little-color-to-the-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>Tara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=384#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not the numbers themselves that concerns me.  It&#039;s the reason we&#039;re worrying about the numbers that concerns me.  You wouldn&#039;t be worrying about them if you didn&#039;t think the leaders of the church were racist.  You look at raw numbers without accounting for the variables and see racism.  That sort of judgement concerns me so much that I have to hold my tongue before I say things that I will later regret.  I may be making emotional arguments, but that is because this is an emotional topic for me.  It is a topic which divides us in all aspects of society because people want to see problems where there may or may not be a real problem.  Evidence of progress at the very least isn&#039;t enough it seems.  Right now, claims of racism, and classism, and religionism, and numerous other isms are dividing our country, and if we let them, they will divide us in the church as well.  I can only see comments such as yours adding to the divisiveness and that most certainly is not in harmony with the Lord&#039;s will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not the numbers themselves that concerns me.  It&#8217;s the reason we&#8217;re worrying about the numbers that concerns me.  You wouldn&#8217;t be worrying about them if you didn&#8217;t think the leaders of the church were racist.  You look at raw numbers without accounting for the variables and see racism.  That sort of judgement concerns me so much that I have to hold my tongue before I say things that I will later regret.  I may be making emotional arguments, but that is because this is an emotional topic for me.  It is a topic which divides us in all aspects of society because people want to see problems where there may or may not be a real problem.  Evidence of progress at the very least isn&#8217;t enough it seems.  Right now, claims of racism, and classism, and religionism, and numerous other isms are dividing our country, and if we let them, they will divide us in the church as well.  I can only see comments such as yours adding to the divisiveness and that most certainly is not in harmony with the Lord&#8217;s will.</p>
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