Ok, I will confess that I love learning about the Middle East. I love learning more about Jews, Muslims, Arabs, etc. I have so much to learn.
I’m a grad student working on some genetic studies (one of my many jobs). As part of the genetic study we are doing, we have our study participants tell us their race. In medical studies, different treatments can affect different races quite dramatically.
I’m designing a database to capture the information for the study. Many people don’t identify as just one race. Some are multi-racial, and even put percentages on their forms, such as 50% white, 25% hispanic, 25% black. So, I was asking questions about how to properly capture the data.
I learned that there are 5 basic races: White (Caucausian), Black, Asian, Native American, and Pacific Islander. As I have discussed on this blog before, genetic studies show that Native Americans are related to Asian peoples. Simon Southerton seems to have shown that peoples migrated across the Bering Strait, and settled the americas. But according to one of the genetic specialists (I’ll call her Ann) in my office, there is still a big enough difference between Native Americans to separate them from Asians. Same goes for Pacific Islanders.
It seems that many people often refer to the Jewish race, or the Arab race. In some of our previous posts, we talked about the “Cohen” gene, which is a distinguishing gene among people of Jewish descent. So I asked Ann what race Jews were, and she said “Caucasian.” She said there is some interesting distinguishing characteristics of Jews, but not so much to call them a separate race. I asked about Arabs? “Caucasian.” Ok, what about people from India? “Caucasian.” This one really surprised me (as if the others ones didn’t.) I would have suspected India Indians to be Asian, but that is wrong.
Hispanic is the truly confusing one, because there are black hispanics, and white hispanics. If a person is a black hispanic, genetically they are black. Otherwise, they are Caucasian.
I was truly intrigued to learn all of this. Then to top it off, I discovered Ann was from Iran. (She told me it is pronounced ear-ron, not eye-ran, so I will endeavor to pronounce it properly from this point forward.) Now, I just couldn’t resist asking more questions.
I told her that I had heard that Iranians are not Arabs, and that I never really understood that. To me, it always seemed like anyone from the Middle East was an Arab. If Iranians are not Arabs, what are they, and what distinguishes an Arab?
She told me that they refer to themselves as Persians. I had a college professor who had told me he was Persian, and when I asked him where that was, he said “Iraq.” So, I asked her if Iraqi’s were also Persians. She was surprised to hear me tell her than an Iraqi claimed to be Persian, but then decided that it was possible, and then gave me a history lesson.
Persia was once much larger than it is now, and was centered in Iran. Around 600 AD, the Arabs from Saudi Arabia expanded their kingdom and conquered Persia, converting everyone to Islam. (Prior to that, the Persian religion was Zoroastrianism.) Even though the Persians converted to Islam, they never liked the Arab rulers, and a few hundred years later, overthrew them and installed their own kings.
I asked about the differences between Sunni and Shiite (or Shia) muslims. Shia muslims follow a direct lineage through to the prophet Muhammed. Sunni’s believe that clerics do not have to be genetically related to Muhammed. The Sunni line is larger than Shia. Iran is really the only nation primarily Shia. Iraq and Sadaam Hussein were ruled by the minority Sunni, but it appears that the Shiite majority is taking control of the government, so there could be a 2nd Shiite nation. Most other Middle Eastern countries are Sunni. Perhaps Persia is coming back into existence!
Anyway, Ann told me that Iranians hate to be referred to as Arabs, and identify much more with Europeans. She told me that Afghanis feel the same way. She said she knew Americans had a hard time telling the difference, but that people in that part of the world can easily tell the difference between a Persian and an Arab.
Ann has been in America for about a year. Prior to that, she lived in France. She said she really liked Utah, and culturally, felt that Utah was quite similar to Iran. She said families are very important in Iran, and very important in Utah. She said France was much more secular, and the people weren’t as nice. (I’ve vacationed in France, and didn’t think they were very nice either.)
Anyway, it was a truly fascinating conversation! I actually knew a little about Zoroastrianism. For example, the star at Jesus birth was discovered by the Wise Men from the East. Some scholars believe that the Wise Men believed in Zoroastrianism. (I plan a topic on this as we get closer to Christmas–it is a fascinating topic to me.) Ann was surprised to hear this. I also know that there is a mountain in Saudi Arabia called Jebel-Musa which means Mount of Moses. Some muslim and christian scholars believe that this may be the true location of Mount Sinai, and I think there is some pretty intriguing evidence to support that claim. (Ann didn’t know that either.) Anyway, I plan some future posts on that topic as well.
So, did anyone know the difference between a Persian and an Arab? Do you have any other interesting things to add?
21 comments ↓
I knew there was a difference, although I believe they all trace their lineage back to Abraham, since I recently read “Islam for Dummies.”
It’s true what Ann is saying, that you can tell the difference between a Persian and an Arab. I’m no expert, so I probably wouldn’t always get it right, I guess it’s sort of like westerners seeing the difference between Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. To many, they all look the same, but really they have different facial characteristics. It’s just not always starkly obvious to us. I can’t remember who was telling me this recently, perhaps it was a Chinese friend of mine. Anyways, this person was saying that while we tend to think that Asians all look the same, they look at white people in the same way. We tend to look all the same to them.
There is also a language called Persian. My good friend from Afghanistan’s first language is Persian. He’s therefore able to communicate with Iranians (who mostly speak Persian, I believe), but other fellow Afghans speak Farsi or any of the other Afghan languages. He showed me the Persian Book of Mormon. Very interesting. They read back-to-front.
Interesting about Hispanics. I suppose black Hispanics would then be like the Dominican Republic and Brazil, which both have a high black population due to slaves being brought over many years ago?
Back home in Canada, we were once talking to a native fellow who was showing us a sort of wheel that they have in their culture. He called it “The 5 Colours of Man” and it consisted of black, white, red, yellow, and brown. Red would obviously be native. Brown would have to be hispanic then? That’s what I assumed, but maybe it’s actually white.
Ditto on France. Although we found the people friendlier than we had expected, I think it must be very difficult to be an immigrant in France. France has a big problem with lack of integration, particularly among Muslim and African immigrants. When we were in Paris, it was interesting to get off at certain stations of the metro. When you’re at “Gare du Nord,” you forget you’re in Paris. If someone blindfolded you and just put you there, you could easily guess you were in north Africa somewhere. But just a couple stops to the south, suddenly all the white people would re-appear.
The Muslims certainly keep things challenging for staunchly secular France. There was the whole headscarf controversy back a few years ago and racism is always a problem. The ironic part is, though, that without their immigrants, France’s soccer team would probably really suck.
I know Hispanics refer to themselves as brown, but I think the brown on your color chart refers to Pacific Islanders. Hispanics are supposed to choose between black or white.
Last year, I took my family to NY for the Macy’s Thanksgiving parade. I cringed when my 5-year old son, stating the obvious, pointed at a black passenger on the subway and said, “You’re brown.” The black man thought it was hilarious. It was probably the first time my son had seen a black man.
The official language of Iran is Farsi. Ann seemed to interchange Persian and Farsi quite a bit, and said that many Afghani’s speak Farsi as well.
The name Persia was changed to Iran during WWII. It means “land of the arians”.
I am assuming this is different the christian heretic Arius…can you give more background on arians?
On 21 March 1935, the ruler of the country, Reza Shah Pahlavi, issued a decree asking foreign delegates to use the term Iran in formal correspondence. Some believe he made this decision in order to be closer to Germany, by trying to emphasize the Aryan connection between Hitler’s idealistic German Aryan race and the Persian Aryan race, given that “Iran” means “land of Aryans”, at a time where the German empire was slowly becoming an unstoppable superpower. Some others believed he changed “Persia” to “Iran” to present a new and modern face of the country in the world.
AE, very interesting. I was not aware of that fact. It kind of puts the current Iranian president’s remarks about wiping Israel off the map in more troubling terms, wouldn’t you say?
I’ve got an Afghan friend who hates when people call him Arab. He’s Persian.
Please do post some on the above topics, I find very interesting. I did not know the difference at all, so thank you for the quick education lessons. lf
LLF, thanks for stopping by. It looks like your comment got cut. I’d love to hear what else you had to say…
yea i know i like peices of pie too ..but u know..i dojt even know .i need to know wat the distingushing characteristic of persians are and noone has it…i hate my life
huh? I have no idea what you’re talking about, but thanks for stopping by…
I currently live in the Middle East–it’s awesome being over here. There is a differance between being Arab and Persian. I’m in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and when don’t refer to it as the Persain Gulf. My family and I are really enjoying living in the Middle East and learning about this fascinating people and culture.
I currently live in the Middle East–it’s awesome being over here. There is a differance between being Arab and Persian. I’m in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and we don’t refer to it as the Persain Gulf. Here it’s called the Arabian Ocean.
My family and I are really enjoying living in the Middle East and learning about the fascinating people and culture.
Currently, anyone who is a native Arab speaker is considered Arab. Anyone who doesn’t is not.
The Iraon- Persian dialects include Tajik (Tajkistan), Farsi (Iran and parts of Afghanistan), Dari (Afghanistan), and Azerbaijani. The Tajik, Afghan, and Azerbaijani people I know would not identify as Persian–only Iranians would.
It really is that simple, it depends on your language–just so you know.
Thanks, mmiles. Since I don’t speak Arabic or Farsi, that’s still going to be tough for me to distinguish.
Thanks Tim, for commenting. It sounds interesting to live over there.
Persians(Iranians) and Arabs are from two different races. Iranians are Aryans, Arabs and Jews are semites.
Ray,
Can you explain more about Aryans? My knowledge is weak in this area. As I recall, the Germans wanted to promote the Aryan race during World War 1 and 2. I believe that there are Aryans in Iran, but I don’t believe these are the same as German Aryans.
I had a co-worker tell me that the Shah of Iran changed the name of the country from Persia to Iran to become closer to Germany during World War 2, as well as to come up with a more modern name. I’m not sure how much truth there is to this, but she is Iranian, so I tend to believe her. It seems to me that the 2 Aryan groups are different, but since their names are so similar, and they are both anti-jewish, it makes some sense why they would have wanted closer ties.
Hello MM. You wanted to know about the relationship between German Aryans and Iranian Aryans. It should be noted that the first Aryans originated from India. This was a warlike society that called their best and corageous “Aryan” or nobleman. Therefore it is not so much a race as a system of class. Afterwards wave and wave of these “Aryans” imigrated to Mesopotamia (Currently Iran) and to IndoEurope. After centuries the name Aryan or Nobleman was exchanged for race. The reason why Iranians dont look like Germans is both because of weather and second because Aryans in Iran were integrated to the Arab kingdom in the time of Mohammad and so Aryans and Semites mixed, so thats why we look different.
The question of Ahmadinejad and Israel also came up. Ahmadinejad never said that Israel should be wiped off the map. His sayings was taken out of context. Never in his speech did he direct his attention to the Jewishs living in Israel but the governmnet of Israel. This is a very fine distinction that however has to be recognized. To compare Hitler with Ahmadinejad is therefore a wrong comparison and potentially dangerous.
Mohammed,
Thank you for clearing up that point about Aryans. I really appreciate your input.
I see your point trying to separate the government of the Jews from the people of the Jews. If you are correct in your interpretation, then yes it is an extremely fine line and I can understand why Ahmadinejad would be easily misunderstood. My question to you is this. Let’s say Ahmadinejad’s real problem is with the government of Israel, and not the people of Israel. If the government changed to be more accommodating to the Palestinian people, would Ahmadinejad (and the rest of the Arab world) be more accepting of the Nation of Israel even if it was still dominated by Jews?
Well… Now that Israel has established itself in the region, it would be childish for any politician be it arab or Iranian to expect them to pack of and leave. Off course if Israel becomes more accomadating to the palestinians then they should be accepted. However another point should be made. Iran is the only other considerable power in the region besides Israel. By stating that they want to be kind of the protectorate of the palestinians, Iran is trying to get the sympathy and trust of the other arab nations that have been less than kind to Iran and its capabilities. I mean lets be realistic, Ahmadinejad wants to gain more power in the region and the palestinians are the perfect tool for Iran to show itsef the hero. Off course these are all complicated issues that dont have one right answer. The differnt reasons for why ahmadinejad does what he does is less than clear and so one should be cautious in deciding why he does what he does.
p.s. my name is mohammad not mohammed
Mohammad,
Sorry for the misspelling. So, it sounds like Ahmadinejad is just manipulating the Palestinians for Iran’s personal gain. While I know every nation manipulates causes for their own good, I wonder what the Arab neighbors think of Iran’s Palestinian policy.
I think back to Saddam offering money to Palestinian suicide bombers families, and I am appalled. Obviously, this kind of policy is destructive, not constructive. It sounds to me like you are somewhat distrustful of Ahmadinejad, though I am not completely certain of your position.
In my view, it seems like most of the Arab neighbors all try to exploit the Palestinians, rather than try to truly help them in a constructive manner. I believe Hezbollah is an Iranian-backed organization, and that seems to be just as destructive as Saddam’s blood money for suicide bombers.
So, while I know this post isn’t really about the Palestinians policy, I’m happy to go on that tangent. What do you think would be some constructive policies for both the American/Israeli and Arab/Iranian governments regarding the Palestinians?
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