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	<title>Comments on: Gnosticism, Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi Library</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/</link>
	<description>Stuff they don't talk about in Sunday School</description>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-9826</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 04:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-9826</guid>
		<description>Mattie is a spammer, so I deleted his comment.  It&#039;s a common technique for spammers to say &quot;nice post&quot; without mentioning anything of substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mattie is a spammer, so I deleted his comment.  It&#8217;s a common technique for spammers to say &#8220;nice post&#8221; without mentioning anything of substance.</p>
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		<title>By: Bishop Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-9825</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishop Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 03:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-9825</guid>
		<description>Mattie,  That is usually the case here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mattie,  That is usually the case here.</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-9639</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 03:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-9639</guid>
		<description>Shauni, welcome!  I think your parallels are quite interesting, and I think your impressions are right on the money.  I need to get into the Nag Hammadi texts more, but my reading list is already way too long!  

This idea of becoming like God is not unique to Mormons, or Gnostics.  I did a post on the Orthodox Christian idea of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/07/30/eastern-orthodoxy-theosisdeification/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;theosis&lt;/a&gt;.  Some of the ancient Christian fathers had very &quot;Mormon&quot; sounding ideas.  For example, Athanasius said, ‘God became man, that man might become God.’  Personally, I think it is a shame that most Western Christians have pulled away from this idea, though I&#039;m impressed that Orthodox Christians still actively support this idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shauni, welcome!  I think your parallels are quite interesting, and I think your impressions are right on the money.  I need to get into the Nag Hammadi texts more, but my reading list is already way too long!  </p>
<p>This idea of becoming like God is not unique to Mormons, or Gnostics.  I did a post on the Orthodox Christian idea of <a href="http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/07/30/eastern-orthodoxy-theosisdeification/" rel="nofollow">theosis</a>.  Some of the ancient Christian fathers had very &#8220;Mormon&#8221; sounding ideas.  For example, Athanasius said, ‘God became man, that man might become God.’  Personally, I think it is a shame that most Western Christians have pulled away from this idea, though I&#8217;m impressed that Orthodox Christians still actively support this idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Shauni</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-9637</link>
		<dc:creator>Shauni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 03:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-9637</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not Mormon, but many of my good friends and a few family member are - I grew up in Utah. I just came across your blog today, very cool to see Mormons discussing these issues with an open mind. I&#039;ve recently been reading the codices found at Nag Hammadi and I noticed a few interesting parallels with Mormonism, I found your blog when I was looking for online discussions of this topic. If you or anyone else reading this has any information about LDS positions, official comments, or even discussion amongst Mormons about these similarities, could you please reply with links? 

Primarily, I see the importance of temple worship that is emphasized in the Nag Hammadi texts as a striking similarity to Mormonism. The temple is described as a holy building, within which were several rooms, each with different purposes, where sacred rituals were performed. This isn&#039;t in itself unique among religions, but in the Nag Hammadi text of Phillip, it is mentioned that a new name and garments are given in the temple, and that a ritual washing and annointing are performed. Sounds a lot like the descriptions I&#039;ve heard of the Mormon temple rituals? Also, although the exact purpose and ritual of the bridal chamber is not fully known, it is mentioned several times in the Nag Hammadi texts. It is described as the room within the temple that is the &#039;holiest of holies&#039;, and in some cases in context with what sounds like eternal marriage. In the gospel of Phillip from Nag Hammadi: &quot;Christ came to repair the separation which was from the beginning and again unite the two, and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated...&quot;. 

- Although not exact, their is a similarity between Seth hiding the religious texts &#039;in a mountain&#039; until the end of time, and Moroni hiding the gold plates &#039;in a hill&#039; until the end of time.

- The notion that we can become like god, or A god, through knowing him is a component of both Mormonism and the book of James in the Nag Hammadi texts. 

- The notion of a &#039;Veil&#039; that is placed over our mind upon receiving a physical body in Mormonism, a veil which causes us to forget our pre-existence. The Apocryphon of John from the Nag Hammadi text says: &quot;This is the tomb of the newly-formed body with which the robbers had clothed the man, the bond of forgetfulness; and he became a mortal man&quot; and also, &quot;...she lifted the veil which lay over his mind. And he became sober from the drunkenness of darkness.&quot;

I haven&#039;t finished reading them yet, but I keep coming across things that remind me of LDS practices and teachings. I am also aware of the distinct differences as well, but I thought the similarities specific enough to peak my interest. I&#039;m also not a scholar when it comes to Mormonism, so I may have also missed some similarities or misunderstood some of those I mentioned above. Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not Mormon, but many of my good friends and a few family member are &#8211; I grew up in Utah. I just came across your blog today, very cool to see Mormons discussing these issues with an open mind. I&#8217;ve recently been reading the codices found at Nag Hammadi and I noticed a few interesting parallels with Mormonism, I found your blog when I was looking for online discussions of this topic. If you or anyone else reading this has any information about LDS positions, official comments, or even discussion amongst Mormons about these similarities, could you please reply with links? </p>
<p>Primarily, I see the importance of temple worship that is emphasized in the Nag Hammadi texts as a striking similarity to Mormonism. The temple is described as a holy building, within which were several rooms, each with different purposes, where sacred rituals were performed. This isn&#8217;t in itself unique among religions, but in the Nag Hammadi text of Phillip, it is mentioned that a new name and garments are given in the temple, and that a ritual washing and annointing are performed. Sounds a lot like the descriptions I&#8217;ve heard of the Mormon temple rituals? Also, although the exact purpose and ritual of the bridal chamber is not fully known, it is mentioned several times in the Nag Hammadi texts. It is described as the room within the temple that is the &#8216;holiest of holies&#8217;, and in some cases in context with what sounds like eternal marriage. In the gospel of Phillip from Nag Hammadi: &#8220;Christ came to repair the separation which was from the beginning and again unite the two, and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated&#8230;&#8221;. </p>
<p>- Although not exact, their is a similarity between Seth hiding the religious texts &#8216;in a mountain&#8217; until the end of time, and Moroni hiding the gold plates &#8216;in a hill&#8217; until the end of time.</p>
<p>- The notion that we can become like god, or A god, through knowing him is a component of both Mormonism and the book of James in the Nag Hammadi texts. </p>
<p>- The notion of a &#8216;Veil&#8217; that is placed over our mind upon receiving a physical body in Mormonism, a veil which causes us to forget our pre-existence. The Apocryphon of John from the Nag Hammadi text says: &#8220;This is the tomb of the newly-formed body with which the robbers had clothed the man, the bond of forgetfulness; and he became a mortal man&#8221; and also, &#8220;&#8230;she lifted the veil which lay over his mind. And he became sober from the drunkenness of darkness.&#8221;</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t finished reading them yet, but I keep coming across things that remind me of LDS practices and teachings. I am also aware of the distinct differences as well, but I thought the similarities specific enough to peak my interest. I&#8217;m also not a scholar when it comes to Mormonism, so I may have also missed some similarities or misunderstood some of those I mentioned above. Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Shauni</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-9636</link>
		<dc:creator>Shauni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-9636</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-7657&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@KC &lt;/a&gt; 

Most of the similarities in this link are either completely false, or too general to indicate a legitimate parallel between the Mormons and the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls (scholars aren&#039;t even sure if it was the Essenes, or multiple groups who authored the scrolls). More importantly, the differences between these groups are blatantly ignored in this link. 

If similarities as general as keeping a written record of your activities, being led by men, and being oppressed for your beliefs are indicative of a theological association, then we could postulate a connection between any two groups we choose. A more interesting comparison with the Mormons is to the early Gnostics who buried the codices at Nag Hammadi. I&#039;ll post more on this below.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-7657" rel="nofollow">@KC </a> </p>
<p>Most of the similarities in this link are either completely false, or too general to indicate a legitimate parallel between the Mormons and the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls (scholars aren&#8217;t even sure if it was the Essenes, or multiple groups who authored the scrolls). More importantly, the differences between these groups are blatantly ignored in this link. </p>
<p>If similarities as general as keeping a written record of your activities, being led by men, and being oppressed for your beliefs are indicative of a theological association, then we could postulate a connection between any two groups we choose. A more interesting comparison with the Mormons is to the early Gnostics who buried the codices at Nag Hammadi. I&#8217;ll post more on this below.</p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-7657</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 14:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-7657</guid>
		<description>is there any support for the claims below or is it mere coincidence
The Dead Sea Scrolls &amp; Book of Mormon - Parallels
http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/parallel.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>is there any support for the claims below or is it mere coincidence<br />
The Dead Sea Scrolls &amp; Book of Mormon &#8211; Parallels<br />
<a href="http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/parallel.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/parallel.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-7521</link>
		<dc:creator>MH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 03:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-7521</guid>
		<description>You have a very interesting link--I recommend it to others!  But I don&#039;t really understand your question.  Can you clarify?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a very interesting link&#8211;I recommend it to others!  But I don&#8217;t really understand your question.  Can you clarify?</p>
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		<title>By: New Testament Temple Ritual</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-7518</link>
		<dc:creator>New Testament Temple Ritual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 22:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-7518</guid>
		<description>While I agree that there are many bizarre references in the Christian Apocrypha, how does one account for the many verses which corroborate present-day LDS Temple ordinances?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that there are many bizarre references in the Christian Apocrypha, how does one account for the many verses which corroborate present-day LDS Temple ordinances?</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic &#187; Did Paul Found Christianity?</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-6773</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic &#187; Did Paul Found Christianity?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 04:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-6773</guid>
		<description>[...] At the death of Christ, there was a large movement known as Gnosticism.  This dates right to the time of Christ.  Christian gnostics believed that Christ was not actually human, that he was not born, and that he came supernaturally to the earth.  They don’t believe in Mary, Joseph, the star, and all that is associated in the Biblical story.  The Gospel of Thomas is a gnostic gospel.  It is not a narrative, like the 4 gospels are, but rather just a group of sayings of Jesus.  Gnostics valued intellectual/spiritual knowledge above all.  One could say they were the first group to espouse “intellectualism.”  Gnosticism is kind of an umbrella term, like Protestantism.  Just as not all Protestants believe exactly the same things, there are different flavors of Gnosticism.  Gnostic groups rivaled Orthodox Christianity in size until about the 7th or 8th centuries.  Constantine persecuted the Gnostics in favor of Orthodox Christianity.  I did another post discussing the varying beliefs of Gnostics. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] At the death of Christ, there was a large movement known as Gnosticism.  This dates right to the time of Christ.  Christian gnostics believed that Christ was not actually human, that he was not born, and that he came supernaturally to the earth.  They don’t believe in Mary, Joseph, the star, and all that is associated in the Biblical story.  The Gospel of Thomas is a gnostic gospel.  It is not a narrative, like the 4 gospels are, but rather just a group of sayings of Jesus.  Gnostics valued intellectual/spiritual knowledge above all.  One could say they were the first group to espouse “intellectualism.”  Gnosticism is kind of an umbrella term, like Protestantism.  Just as not all Protestants believe exactly the same things, there are different flavors of Gnosticism.  Gnostic groups rivaled Orthodox Christianity in size until about the 7th or 8th centuries.  Constantine persecuted the Gnostics in favor of Orthodox Christianity.  I did another post discussing the varying beliefs of Gnostics. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mormon Heretic &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comparing the Book of Abraham and the Gospel of Judas</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/05/21/gnosticism-dead-sea-scrolls-nag-hammadi-library/comment-page-1/#comment-2601</link>
		<dc:creator>Mormon Heretic &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Comparing the Book of Abraham and the Gospel of Judas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonheretic.org/?p=34#comment-2601</guid>
		<description>[...] The discovery is very interesting, and the ancient document was written in an ancient form of Egyptian, called Coptic.  (Is this &#8220;reformed Egyptian&#8221;?)  The Coptic Christian Church still exists today, and dates from this early time period.  The copy discovered isn&#8217;t quite as old at Ireneaus, but dates to about the 1600 years ago.  It&#8217;s not quite as old as Ireneaus, but it certainly is ancient, and might be the same gospel he was referring to.  Ireneaus was talking about a Greek text, but he Gospel of Judas is probably a Coptic translation of the original Greek text.  (You may want to learn more about Gnosticism, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Nag Hammadi Library from my previous post on this.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The discovery is very interesting, and the ancient document was written in an ancient form of Egyptian, called Coptic.  (Is this &#8220;reformed Egyptian&#8221;?)  The Coptic Christian Church still exists today, and dates from this early time period.  The copy discovered isn&#8217;t quite as old at Ireneaus, but dates to about the 1600 years ago.  It&#8217;s not quite as old as Ireneaus, but it certainly is ancient, and might be the same gospel he was referring to.  Ireneaus was talking about a Greek text, but he Gospel of Judas is probably a Coptic translation of the original Greek text.  (You may want to learn more about Gnosticism, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Nag Hammadi Library from my previous post on this.) [...]</p>
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